Chris Skinner (00:04):
Morning everybody. It's half past four in the morning and last night about 10 o'clock, I went around check everything's okay in the farm yard and had the torch with me. It was dark and I counted 37 swallows, all adults. Some are nesting, some are incubating eggs already. And I just thought I'd go back in that stable block that I visited two or three weeks ago. Just have a listen because there's about a dozen in this particular stable. I'll be walking in amongst some horses. So there's still some early morning chomping going on the remnants of last night's hay. So here we go. Let's have a little, listen, that's the way to start the day. Absolutely delightful. Right, let's go's on the farm. Oh, it's a blackbird just in front of me.

Matthew Gudgin (02:33):
Overcast but dry and heading towards the end of May. It's nearly going to be flaming June, but we're here in virtually in shirt sleeves, so it is pretty pleasant here. And lovely vista of yellow on this field. I'm joined by the top person here on High Ash Farm. There's Rat, the Terrier and oh, Chris Skinner's here as well. Hello Chris!

Chris Skinner (02:56):
Yes, you get it the right way around. Matthew. Yes.

Matthew Gudgin (02:59):
Rat's having a sneeze up.

Chris Skinner (03:00):
He is, yes. Hey Ratty. Good boy. He's flying round. Yes, I knew he'd have the first word. What are you doing? Anyway, Matthew, we're standing in a 30 acre field and there's several fields like this at High Ash Farm and it's just a site for sore eyes. The only way you can describe it, it's quite a rare site these days because this is a wildflower field and it's providing a pollen and nectar right through spring, summer, and even into autumn. With the whole variety of wild flowers here. I can see clover down there and this just bright yellow. Everything we can see at the moment. This plant is meadow, buttercup Rununculus acris is the scientific name and it used to be a huge problem in pastures. It's slightly toxic for many farmland animals. Things like sheep generally will graze around it.

(04:01):
Cattle will graze around it, but if horses graze it, it can cause digestive problems. So it's a bit of a nuisance weed and modern agricultural chemicals really have taken care of it, and that's why it's a rare site because this field together with many of the others here at the farm are not sprayed at all. So it's a tallish plant. It's the tallest member of the Buttercup family.

Matthew Gudgin (04:27):
Yes. Sort of over knee height this?

Chris Skinner (04:28):
Yes it is. It's a good 600ml, two feet and higher. And its flowering periods is about three to four weeks. So you come back in a month's time and there'll be not sign of it and the field will probably be purple by then with the next wild flowers that come through. Things like sainfoin, white clover in the bottom and lots and lots of other plants as well.

(04:54):
There's about five or six buttercup species. This one is or was the commonest I should say. But it's been taken over by another one, which I did battle with in my youth. We had a really old pasture at the farm and right on the other side of the valley over there and near that house you can see in the distance and the field would always be bright yellow in June and July. And the cattle used to graze around this particular buttercup and it actually favoured it because it then gave its space to spread out. So agricultural chemicals were just starting the hormone weed spray from years ago and it was quite expensive to buy. So my father decided to reseed the field and he looked at me and while I was just about old enough to drive a tractor properly and there was a rusty old set of discs laying in the corner of the farm yard, which you could use to chop the soil up.

(05:59):
So he said, right, go and cultivate that a few times and then again in a week's time. So I took these rusty old discs, all scratchy and scratchy and hadn't had grease in the bearings for years. I just remember the name. They were called denning discs and they're only about eight feet wide. And I kept doing this pasture to get rid of this buttercup because what I didn't know, the scientific name of that particular buttercup was rununculous reapins, which literally means creeping buttercup. So I disced it to death. And then father had got a single furrow ransom TS 81 plough, which he'd used for deep digging for potatoes, which we grew here. And I ploughed it over a foot deep and put the top soil down to the bottom of the furrow and turned it over and it wasn't a sign of a buttercup.

(06:56):
So got to September, he bought four bags of grass seed and I spread that on and harrrowed it all in, rolled it, and it was absolute perfection. It looked like a rolled golf course, a bowling green even. And I then learned that sometimes nature has the last word. So it got to march the following year, all the grass was up, the cattle were grazing it, and you looked down at it and there was literally hundreds and hundreds of tiny buttercup plants. And because I chopped it up and said, thank you very much, each one of those little plants produced a new one.

Matthew Gudgin (07:35):
Divided and multiplied

Chris Skinner (07:36):
Because of me! Instead of it being a tolerable population, in the end we had to spray the field to get rid of it. So I learned my first scientific Latin, Latin name for buttercups, rununculous reapins, the creeping buttercup, and I've never forgotten it.

Matthew Gudgin (07:55):
But now you're farming to fill the fields with this lovely yellow, aren't you?

Chris Skinner (07:58):
Yes, absolutely. So this one doesn't get, it will get really mown about late August, september time at the end of the flowering season. The last one to flower on here would be something called hardheads or knapweed, a deep purple. And it's a great favourite for goldfinches here. But in the meantime, each week almost you come here, there's a different colour and as I said, it's quite a rare site now. Yeah, so just beautiful because it's

Matthew Gudgin (08:29):
Canary yellow really isn't it?

Chris Skinner (08:30):
It is, yes. And there's lots of older names for it because buttercup actually quite a recent name. The last 200 - 250 years only before that it was called Soldiers Buttons. It had a whole variety of different old English names which were really, really lovely. And the secret was with buttercup because it's butter yellow. And you could always tell if your girlfriend or a friend liked butter because you'd pick one of those, put it under your chin, and if you saw the yellow reflection under your chin, that just meant you liked butter. So buttercup seems a very appropriate

Matthew Gudgin (09:07):
Well, I suggest that I tried that, but how many chins would you see under me?

Chris Skinner (09:11):
Well, yes, we do each one to the six, so that would be fine. So just look at that.

Matthew Gudgin (09:19):
Yeh it's so beautiful.

Chris Skinner (09:20):
It is beautiful. And if the sun comes out, almost guarantee you'd have to put sunglasses on.

Matthew Gudgin (09:25):
And it's waving in the breeze as well.

Chris Skinner (09:27):
It's just trying to break through the sun through the cloud layer. But it is just extraordinarily beautiful and that's how the old English countryside used to be. And of course there'd be lots of insects in there. And yes Rat said, that's time you've done your five minute Skinner. You've done enough talking. And he had to interrupt. Are you being a good boy down there? He's actually sitting near us because he's going to be lucky because we're going to another venue in a few minutes time across the other side of the farm, and he will be able to accompany us in there as well. And one of his favourite spots of the farm, because there's lots of rabbit holes and foxes and all sorts. I just heard a skylark go up and start singing excellent habits for nesting birds and see what I mean. We've gone past the five minutes, so rat says, that's time. Let's go and do something proper. That just means somebody's about, we're quite close to the public footpath and Arminghall churches in your distance. We're actually in Arminghall this morning, not High Ash Farm at Caistor. We're right up on the northern boundary, and this particular plant loves the soil underneath it. It's heavy damp clay, so it doesn't dry out too easily. And it's absolute perfection for this particular plant.

Matthew Gudgin (10:49):
Great for the pollinators

Chris Skinner (10:50):
And for the pollinators and lots of bees. As soon as the sun's out, this will be swarming with bees gathering pollen and some nectar from it as well. So there we are. Do you think we both like butter?

Matthew Gudgin (11:04):
Yes, I can't get enough of it actually.

Chris Skinner (11:06):
Look at that. But when the sun's on these, the petals actually almost reflect the sunlight. They actually shine like little mirrors, so an amazing sight. So there we are. Welcome to High Ash Matthew for another week. And this will almost be gone and because it's been in flower a couple of weeks already.

Matthew Gudgin (11:36):
Well, we're on the edge of one of Chris's large fields here and we've got the green shoots of recovery coming up through here, haven't we? What have you done with this field?

Chris Skinner (11:47):
Matthew, this has just been reseeded about two weeks ago over winter wild bird mix. And immediately afterwards there was some heavy rain, and so the ground was very, very soft. And in past podcasts as we look round the farm, we bump into lots of deer species. On the way here, we've already bumped into a muntjac, which scooched off through the hedge. We've seen roe deer, we've seen Chinese water deer. That's three species,

Matthew Gudgin (12:18):
about a hundred rabbits

Chris Skinner (12:20):
and lots and lots of rabbits. And sometimes when you out living in the countryside, you look for the signs because some of the animals, things like badgers are strictly nocturnal. You see their footprints, hares and rabbits, particularly in snow or in mud, you see their footprints so you know that they're there without necessarily seeing them. And there's one of the species of deer, in fact, it's the largest mammal in the UK, and they're here quite a lot now. They're red deer and with the antlers, they're about as tall as you are and really seriously large animals.

Matthew Gudgin (12:58):
So these are a large species to be surviving and sort of living and coexisting with us in the countryside?

Chris Skinner (13:04):
Yes, and that's the problem when they cross roads, there is a lot in Norfolk now. And when I say large, just look down here, these footprints, this

Matthew Gudgin (13:16):
Newly planted field with soft look. Oh look, my goodness,

Chris Skinner (13:21):
There's the two cloven hooves and there, and two, usually behind them you'll get two little dew claw marks. The ground was so soft. Look at that. You can get your fist in that one and there that

Matthew Gudgin (13:33):
That's deep, isn't it? Yeah.

Chris Skinner (13:34):
And so there the footprints of red deer compared to Rat who's just arrived, my terrible terrier, he could get all four feet in one deer slot we call them. So there we are. That's just a sign. Another one lovely one over there. We can see the cloven hooves there, the split between them. And I think there was five, and they're likely to have all been stags and because at this time of the year, the does have given birth and they're looking after their charges and the boys are kind of redundant. So they all go off together. The boys and well, I did mention last week, you've all heard of a stag party. Well, this time of the year, the mallard are all deserted by the females. It is that way round. And the same with the deer. Their job, their rut from last autumn is well over now and they're living in the countryside all by themselves. Anyway, Matthew just want you to stand up. We had a quick look at this and we are now going to see something special. I did promise you.

Matthew Gudgin (14:39):
Well, by the way, where do these deer go the rest of the time?

Chris Skinner (14:42):
In this tall areas of woodland, there's 13 areas of woodland here at High Ash Farm. And that's why the habitat's right for them and the wild fields which we looked at earlier, have crops in which suit deer down to the ground. They have lots of legumes in things like sainfoin, which is a tall legume, almost looks like a loop in. It's the same family and it's really high end protein and starch and carbohydrate actually sainfoin comes from the French. It literally means wholesome hay. And so they secrete themselves into woodland. And as long as they're not disturbed otherwise they can run off out into the sort of open countryside. Generally they're okay, but they cause serious amount of damage if you happen to hit one in your car.

Matthew Gudgin (15:34):
And they've been quite formative of the countryside in Britain, haven't they? Because I mean many years ago, our lords and masters and royalty would set aside huge areas of land just to hunt deer.

Chris Skinner (15:45):
Yes. Oh, hunting was the privilege of the rich and wealthy. And still today, sometimes a lot of, particularly up in Scotland where there are large numbers of red deer, it forms a really useful income for parts of the countryside where you hard push to get a living these days.

Matthew Gudgin (16:06):
But an area like Epping Forest or the New Forest somewhere like Sherwood Forest, they would just be like royal preserves.

Chris Skinner (16:13):
Absolutely. And different species of deer would be hunted at different times of the year as well. Things like fallow deer as well. And there's several other native species. Well, there's not many native species. Many of the others were introduced, but red deer and roe deer, they're resident native species, so very interesting. Anyway, I promised you a treat because this last week behind us, a very special show happened. It's called Chelsea the Flower Show. And

Matthew Gudgin (16:47):
Did you win any gold medals this year?

Chris Skinner (16:48):
 No. I'm about to get a gold medal when I take you through a little bit further into the woodland here because I think nature can top trump man's best efforts. Just walk in here. The bluebells that were here a couple of weeks ago are flat on the ground.

Matthew Gudgin (17:08):
They've had it for another year. They'll be back, make our way through the trees and the undergrowth here. Oh, these are absolutely coming out into their best shape now, aren't they? You better tell us.

Chris Skinner (17:24):
Yes, Matthew, they're fox gloves, digitalis purpurea

Matthew Gudgin (17:29):
Six foot plus some of these.

Chris Skinner (17:30):
Oh, these will make eight, nine, and even 10 feet, three metres tall. And they've just started flowering. Each one in front of us has got, this particular one has got about what? 50 little fox glove flowers on it and still more to come and it's still going. And that's now about getting off seven feet up, I suppose.

Matthew Gudgin (17:54):
Lovely violet shade.

Chris Skinner (17:56):
Lots and lots of different colours, although it's digitalis purpurea there in the background is salmon colour ones pure, pure white just over there through there.

Matthew Gudgin (18:08):
So these different mutations then?

Chris Skinner (18:10):
Yes, they crossbreed and all sorts of different colours. So you have pale pink, this one in front of us, absolutely purple. And when you look in the little fox gloves themselves, you can see little honey guide in there and the bees go in and come out. In fact, it's just a bit on the cool side. If the sun was here, this would be swarming with bumblebees, even in these cooler temperatures, just needs the sun on it to get the pollen and nectar going. And it's just an amazing site. So you actually look right through and they go off as far as the eye can see through the woodland. And I think that top trump really anything. The best work that you can do at Chelsea, and this has happened. This is nature's idea of how it should be. Yes.

Matthew Gudgin (18:57):
You haven't seeded these and planted them out and decided where they go?

Chris Skinner (19:00):
No. And it is a shade loving plant. The bluebells are all done flat on the ground, all the energy is now into the bulbs, and then the next layer of woodland flowers come into flower. And these are much more shade tolerant. They like this. You can actually feel if you stand up and down on the ground, it's very spongy. And that's acid peat that we're standing on and on top of a hill.

Matthew Gudgin (19:22):
I used to know someone who could have been called Acid Pete.

Chris Skinner (19:24):
Yes, yes. Yeah, very good. Very drole. And so they love this soil type and there's a lot of history to it. Children used to pick the flowers and you'd get up near the top, you have small fingers and actually put your finger in the little bell shape flowers. And when you detach them, they generally have a little hook on the end where they're still attached and you could actually get five on one hand and it makes it look. So you've got claws and fox glove. Yeah, so interesting. Now where nature's names come from. Oh, there just saw, that'd be a queen buff tail bumblebee. There she is. Love that. Yes, yes.

Matthew Gudgin (20:07):
Coming towards us.

Chris Skinner (20:08):
She's coming right over here.

Matthew Gudgin (20:10):
So obedient. Your wildlife!

Chris Skinner (20:12):
Obedient. Of course, yes.

Matthew Gudgin (20:14):
She's gone right in the glove.

Chris Skinner (20:17):
Just flew pass another one there. That's a queen buff tail. That's the original one I saw. And they are here. And once we're standing here, a moment or two suddenly the sun's just trying to come out. But the colour is fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. So it was a 18th century botanist that discovered some of the secrets of fox gloves. He was a pharmacist as well. And he discovered that people being treated with fox glove leaves for dropsy, which is where you have fluid retention in the body, were having miraculous recoveries. And so he decided to try and find out what was happening. So he did some experiments with fox glove leaves and he found out that it wasn't the primary effect, it was the fact that the heart was beating stronger and slower and that was dispelling all the fluid in the body. And it was so a roundabout cure for it.

(21:21):
But he then discovered that the heart was being hugely affected by digitalis, which is the drug within foxgloves, leaves. It's very, very powerful. And he did some experiments. If he made it a little bit too strong, he would kill his patients. And if it wasn't quite strong enough, it had no effect at all. So he realised he'd discovered something which is still used to in heart medicine, it's to regularise the heart, not the bee just going in here. Actually, why we can't see them is because they're all up in the bells here. Just one gone on where the tip of my finger is.

Matthew Gudgin (21:55):
You can easily get your foot thumb in these, can't you? Oh, there he's,

Chris Skinner (21:59):
Yes,

Matthew Gudgin (22:02):
Here we go.

Chris Skinner (22:03):
They're very shy. But look over there. There's a pure white one, which is a good six foot, six, seven feet tall and they just love this soil. So one of the plants that we've learned to live with, and it really forms a backdrop to a lot of modern carbon displays, those and delphiniums, they really stand out. But when nature does a display like this, I mean you couldn't have, I mean there's well over a thousand just where we're standing.

Matthew Gudgin (22:35):
And these just occur naturally?

Chris Skinner (22:36):
This occur naturally. And again, a months time or so, they'll have finished flowering. And I did teach you about a year ago how to get the seed off them. You run your hand all the way out the stalk and you have these little capsules and just rub them in your hands and you get this tiny seed. So each plant can produce over 10,000 seeds.

Matthew Gudgin (22:55):
Oh, that's when the flowers have just gone over.

Chris Skinner (22:58):
Yes, they've gone over and you had little,

Matthew Gudgin (22:59):
and you get the seed handful of that and then you

Chris Skinner (23:02):
you could spread it in your garden. Or if you don't like your neighbour and want to cover up, you throw it over the garden fence and it's a biennial. That's the problem with it. So you do have to wait a long time for displays like this. But then the seed from this year will drop on the ground and come into flower again in 2026. So

Matthew Gudgin (23:22):
These fox gloves we can see here are only half the number you've got here because there'll be another lot that come up next year.

Chris Skinner (23:27):
 Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes. So generally they're all flower together like this. They're really good. So this is just an amazing display. It looks as though the people have been here and planted them. And it's not like that at all. It is just such a lovely site, Matthew. It is almost tearful when you look through and it's sprinkled all through the woodland there and there's bracken and ferns coming up through it. And the elder is in flower. We'll look at that in a future podcast and it's time for elder flower. Wine is coming up. So I think get,

Matthew Gudgin (24:00):
You've got my attention there!

Chris Skinner (24:02):
Best get the still out and start brewing some. But just to see this and to see that succession from the bluebells to this because these were hardly visible when the bluebells first came out a month or so ago and early purple orchids were in here. And so it's actual doing what nature's meant to. If we stand back and let it all happen like it has done here, it's just mind blowing.

Matthew Gudgin (24:30):
Fox gloves and what do you put in gloves? Fingers. Fingers, digits?

(24:35):
Digitalis Listen, that's where the Latin name comes from as though you can get your little finger in. And remember coming here once with my mum, I was only six years old and she would pick one off the stalk. Let's just try it like this, like that. And she held both ends to close it and then I dunno how she did it, but she somehow did a pop in the middle and it would do a little pop like that before it opens up on the end. So there we are. Beautiful. Yep. You don't need to say anything, it just takes your breath away

(25:22):
Onto the correspondence that comes in thick and fast to Chris's podcast. And we're next to the woodland with those wonderful fox gloves and looking out there with some beautiful vistas. It's not brilliant blue sky and sunshine today, but there's some beauty about this sort of weather with the clouds coming through, isn't there?

Chris Skinner (25:40):
Yes. It sort of makes the countryside into a patchwork quilt of colours as the sun sort of just comes through the cloud, which is now breaking up, but it's mild and near the end of May and it's a super time of year. It's that transition now from certainly the end of spring to see the buttercups. That's a real sign that summer's here and the fox gloves in flower behind us in the woodland. It just tells us that we're in summer at long last.

Matthew Gudgin (26:10):
Well thank you for all the emails that have come through. Ray Dumpleton is in sort of tuneful mood. I'm glad you enjoyed the verse, Chris from Martin Simpson's song about the swallow a few weeks back. The next verse is about Swift's. They arrived here over Manchester slightly earlier than usual on the 9th of May. So far just one pair though sadly the numbers decline each year and he's given us some of the poem here.

(26:38):
'Swift sithe and scream through the city, dusk, late to come and first to leave, but come they do and leave they must,

(26:45):
Hot August nights, their absence grieve and how we miss their impudent glee. This devil's bitch, this mystery, this Sprite that sleeps upon the breeze and flies and feeds behind the storm.'

Chris Skinner (27:00):
How about that? Well that's interesting because the word devil's bitch there, I had to think about that because the swift is generally a black coloured bird. So there's no really relief. There's a tiny white patch of feathers under the bill, underneath the beak, which swells up when they catch lots of insects. And you'll often see them around churches and they do nest in church towers. So hence devil's bitch. And it was thought in centuries gone by that the Swifts were the souls of people that couldn't find a restful place. So they screamed trying to get into the graveyard at the church because they couldn't find a place in heaven. They obviously were linked to hell. So the devil's bitch, in other words, bitches had a different meaning back then. It was just a sort of connotation, meaning link to something. We still use that today because female otters are called bitches and dogs obviously called bitch as well, the female version, but the devil's bitch. So I think that's where the name comes from and it is used right through history. Got lots of references to it.

Matthew Gudgin (28:14):
Thanks Ray, and thanks for the verse as well. Johnny. Johnny Griffiths in Norwich has sent us a photograph sadly of a dead owl. We came across this on a walk around your farm today, so it's one of your dead owls. Any ideas what might caused its demise he asks?

Chris Skinner (28:31):
Yes, it's very close to a neighbouring farm and owls do reach old age and occasionally die. They're also very vulnerable when they're feeding on the ground. So tawny owls, little owls and barn owls all catch their prey on ground level. And the other thing that happens at the moment is there's quite a lot of rodents out in the Norfolk countryside and many people are using rat bait whereas it's not directed at owls, but the rats eat the bait. So the mice, particularly long tail field mice and house mice, they will then crawl about in sort of the owls of darkness in a state of stupor if you like. And the owls can eat them and that can actually affect owls and actually kill them. It's a sort of unintended consequence of modern rodenticides.

Matthew Gudgin (29:21):
Jan Fellingham. We must say hello to Jan and Jan's mum, who's 90 years old and listens avidly.

Chris Skinner (29:28):
Excellent, well done. Welcome to the podcast.

Matthew Gudgin (29:32):
We're on her third listen for some of them. That's terrific, isn't it?

Chris Skinner (29:35):
Goodness me. Yes, and there's some lovely comments and many comments this week, the benefits of listening to the podcast and this really almost tearful some of the comments.

Matthew Gudgin (29:47):
Jan heard you speaking about your badges so lovingly last week and the Badger funeral story. I know a lot of people were moved by that and Jan said, you moved me immensely listening to that.

Chris Skinner (29:59):
Thank you. Yes. Things we discover in nature, the badgers are mammals rather like us, and they have a lot of similar habits to us as well as having arguments.

Matthew Gudgin (30:12):
William Osborne, thank you for your notes here. Over the weekend I was walking from wooed to Cromer in North Norfolk and along the canal between North Walsham and Bacton Wood. I spotted a mink, a mink running along the other side of the waterway. I've since read about them more and realised just how harmful they can be, but can't find anyone to report the sighting to. So William asked Chris, what would your advice be?

Chris Skinner (30:38):
Right, well, first of all, you could ring up Norfolk Wildlife Trust. They would certainly have an interest in that mink were farmed particularly in the eastern counties here because way back in the 1940s and fifties, it was the height of fashion to wear a mink coat. It was top fashion item for ladies. And they even bred mink with some silver in there for silver mink, and that would be even more expensive. There were shops in Norwich selling mink coats. And so later on some escapes, some mink escaped. These are American mink and some also were released by animal rights people and they got into our waterways. They're sort of a bit of a cross between a stout and an otter somewhere in there. So they will swim really well indeed. They can take coots and moorhen from underneath and particularly baby ducklings. They will kill fish and they will kill birds on their nests. And they just created a lot of havoc in broadland. But numbers haven't really increased much recently. We're sort of on top of them by trapping and having to shoot them and it's rather tragic. So I would give the local branch of Norfolk Wildlife Trust a call just to inform them.

Matthew Gudgin (31:55):
Chris Masham has been reading Chris from Ham. Should I say? I think Chris, your surname is Biggin, isn't it? He's been reading Mark Cocker, who's quite a famed naturalist and write, he writes very well on the countryside and he lives in Norfolk, doesn't he? And Chris didn't. I don't know whether you realise that Chris, but one Midsummers Day by Mark Cocker Chris says is a terrific read. He mentioned going to a Norfolk farm to see Swift's feeding on flea beetles. Could this have been High Ash?

Chris Skinner (32:24):
Well, it could have been high ash, but I think there's other people, particularly up in North Norfolk, are doing the same thing as me now and growing fodder radish, and mustard to attract the flea beetles. And then the Swifts come and feed on the flea beetles when they swarm. It's kind of aerial plankton I would call it, but I wasn't where Mark was here. But I've got two or three of his books and they're all absolutely excellent. Flora Botanica and all sorts of other really great books to read.

Matthew Gudgin (32:54):
Lots of emails here. We've got one here from Vermont, Jennifer Bishop, who is a regular listener, her and her husband Noel. So special mention to Noel, who particularly finds the podcast very comforting. Jennifer says, I think it's important for you to know that at least one other person in this world, you are making an impression. Your show is a highlight and your enthusiasm a lifeline for someone that typically looks through a dark lens.

Chris Skinner (33:23):
Yeah. So thank you for those comments. I know exactly what you mean and yeah, it's just partly the reason we do the podcast. It reaches people who aren't as privileged as you and I are standing here looking over this fantastic vista with beautiful countryside all around us and it kind of lifts the spirits in a way nothing else can. It's a delight to share the countryside with our listeners.

Matthew Gudgin (33:50):
Here's one from Alan Hooper and Joanne Sheen in Gloucestershire. Dear Chris, Matthew rat and production team, I think Rat would feel like he's a bit too low on the billing there.

Chris Skinner (34:00):
Where's he gone? He's asleep. On the front seat of the truck here.

Matthew Gudgin (34:05):
I'd like to thank you for your wonderful programmes. Two years ago I was suffering from mental health issues. I can honestly say a big part of my recovery was listening to you. Last week, my partner and I were in Norwich. We paid a quick visit to the farm where I saw my first swallows of the year. So a nice entry in my wildlife diary features High Ash Farm. On the way home we visited Wheating Heath and saw Stone Curlews. That's Thetford way isn't it?

Chris Skinner (34:31):
Yes, it certainly is. That's the sort of headquarters of stone curlew. Yes. I think I went, I was just trying to think of the name that the Africans had given the stone curlew. I just come to me. They were called thick knees. And when you see a stone curlew, it's got these bright yellow legs and right in the middle, these two bobs, which are the knees, and that's the name, the local name for them, they were called thick knees and they're migratory birds, very large eyes. And there they were all rushing around underneath the mangrove swamps there catching all sorts of invertebrates.

Matthew Gudgin (35:11):
Say hello to Ingrid Bain. Ingrid's written a nice note for us. Ingrid Bain living near Cambridge. PS loved your rendition last week of Cecilia.

Chris Skinner (35:20):
Yes, I changed the word to phacelia because I grow the plant. In fact, it's growing right next to us. And the first one's already in flower. Excellent flower. If you want a nice easy pollen and nectar plant to really attract the bees, then you can buy phacelia in a lot of garden shops as seed. And it's a good time of the year to plant it. And it will come into flower sort of July, early August. And you'll be amazed at the insect life you can attract in your own garden. You don't need a big patch of it. Beautiful lilac blue flowers.

Matthew Gudgin (35:55):
Here's another Chris. Chris is like you loves the sparrows. Yes. And Chris says, recently visiting our local supermarket, we noticed each time a car parked up, sparrows flew down to the front of the vehicles, each one and started picking insects from the front grills. Are the sparrows taking advantage of this source of insects for their young? Normally sparrows would be eating seeds, wouldn't it?

Chris Skinner (36:18):
Yes, they certainly would. But seeds at this time of the year, hard to come by. Not many seeds have ripened yet. And things like dandelions have and things like grounds all but sparrows will feed their young on insects at this time of the year. Several other bird species as well that feed on grain. Things like grey partridge, they will feed their insect young on insects and skylarks as well. So what they feed their young changes at this time of the year because caterpillars and insects have lots of moisture and protein in them. And it's ideal for young chicks in the nest particularly.

Matthew Gudgin (36:58):
And just finally, here's Bob Borden's email. Bob lives, well, not many miles away from here in Norfolk. And Bob says, we've noticed Chris, quite a few turquoise bird poos appearing around our home in Hemblington near Norwich. These pictures and there's a photo. These pictures show what was by far the biggest and looked like someone had tipped a cup of paint from the top of the house. There are quite a few smaller ones dotted around as well. Were surrounded by fields which have various crops in at the moment, mainly beet and mustard plants. And wondered if it was one of those that the birds were eating as. I can't think what berries would be around at the moment to cause this sort of colour.

Chris Skinner (37:40):
Oh, you'd be surprised what berries are still about. Still, if you look in hedgerows, there are ivy berries which are dark, sort of almost black in the skin, almost as sort of a reddish if you squash 'em in your fingers. And this particular one I've brought with us in the back of the car is Mahonia and it comes into flower over the winter months, but at this time of the year, it produces lots of these little berries. And if I take one off and this is the gory bit...

Matthew Gudgin (38:08):
 Oh my goodness, there's blood everywhere.

Chris Skinner (38:10):
It looks like blood. But when that goes through the bird's alimentary canal and comes out of the other end, it's exposed to acids as well. And it's already beginning to change colour and it comes out as turquoise. So it could be any member of the Mahonia family as well. Lots of people grow it in their gardens, so nothing to do with sugar beet or any of the cereal crops at the moment. So there we are now. Nicely stained fingers here. We didn't splash you so..

Matthew Gudgin (38:39):
looks like Ribena that!

Chris Skinner (38:41):
 It looks as though you've been murdering somebody. There we are. So you can see this nature's full of surprises, but when it's passed through the digestive system, it changes colour. And I've seen this many times, particularly in the autumn with blackberries, you can have almost sky blue or dark blue bird poo. What a subject to end on. The questions we get make me smile really deer's footprint and know turquoise bird poo. But I could say what you need to do is to look for a turquoise bird.

Matthew Gudgin (39:16):
Well, that's it from High Ash Farm for another week. It's been great fun and the time has whizzed by and we've loved all your emails. Keep them coming in the address, chris@countrysidepodcast.co. Dot uk. Questions, comments, recipes, poems, whatever. We'll be delighted to hear from you

Chris Skinner (39:35):
And they all make me smile, which is lovely. Thank you.