Chris Skinner (00:30):
It is four o'clock in the morning and just for fun, I was just waiting to see who was going to start off this morning's dawn chorus. After the middle of the May, the dawn chorus starts to fade away, but the, that's the first word this morning.

Matthew Gudgin (02:44):
Still in May, but it really feels like summer now. The sun is really strong and just fluffy clouds, blue sky and it's a great delight to be back on the farm. High Ash Farm near Norwich with Farmer Chris Skinner. Chris, thanks for inviting us once again.

Chris Skinner (03:02):
You're more than welcome, Matthew. Welcome. As I said to High Ash Farm, we're right on the northern boundary. Actually we are in Arminghall today, and it's one of those little sandwich villages that really protects Caistor St Edmund High Ash farm from Norwich because it's sort of spitting distance away over there. You've just got Trowse on the outskirts of Norwich and Lakenham and really they've been absorbed into the city limits now. And so Arminghall is the buffer, if you like, on the northern edge of the farm. We're on one of the footpaths here at the farm or right beside it. It's called Boudicca Way. And it's one that I cleared about three or four years ago and it's a superb walk through the whole northern half of the farm. It's about two thirds of a mile long because we've got a horse gallop where we're standing on, and that's six furlongs long and it's uphill the whole way, which is unusual for Norfolk. And we've, in the last few podcasts anyway, we've been following some of the delights of the flowers of spring and the ones that I showed you last week are pretty well gone. It all happened so quickly.

Matthew Gudgin (04:22):
Even the obscene one?

Chris Skinner (04:23):
Yes, even the obscene one, Lords and ladies or cuckoo pint, whichever you like to call it, that's all gone and fallen down to the ground. The leaves are withered already and that's just tells you how quickly spring moves on into summer. And there seems to be this invisible race between all the flowers sort of giving out lovely perfume scents and nectars for all the insects, the butterflies at this time of the year. And then once they're finished with the next batch comes in and it's almost continuous and I absolutely love it. So little treat for you this morning, and it's a nasal treat as well. So here we are. We've just got to walk onto the footpath now.

Matthew Gudgin (05:09):
Down the bank we go to this footpath, which runs all the way from Norwich actually, if you fancy doing it one of these days and goes much further down into the south of the county. But this bit is of course the most important bit.

Chris Skinner (05:22):
Yes, we're on High Ash and that's the boundary. And that's Arminghall wood on the other side of the boundary. And you can see there's bluebells just about finished in there. And then the next batch, these white flowers, these white dome shaped flowers actually come out and if we just walk down over the ditch, yeah, we can do that. Come on, nudge. You're athletic, aren't you?

Matthew Gudgin (05:47):
Oh yes. Whoops. There we go. Up the bank and oh, white flowers, lots of them.

Chris Skinner (05:55):
 Lots and lots. And as usual, I'm hands and knees and they're really beautiful. Six starlike petals and a big dome shaped flower. And I dunno if you like garlic, but it's a treat for the nasal senses if you like. This is called ransoms ransomes, and it's really aromatic, I dunno if you can smell it, although the sun's just coming round onto these plants. This little area of woodland on the bank that we're kneeling on fills up with its really powerful scent. So I'm just going to pick one of the little leaves like that and then give it a little rub in my hand and then,

Matthew Gudgin (06:50):
Oh wow, that's a garlic clove, isn't it?

Chris Skinner (06:52):
It certainly is. And so that's its other name is wild garlic. And I notice in the local supermarket they're selling all sorts of recipes now laced with wild garlic as part of the recipe and some of the finest meals that you can have as we looked last week and more and more like with the sorrel for instance, that is included in many modern restaurant menus. And wild garlic is taking over pretty quickly and it grows in profusion here at the farm, you can see stretching away up this ditch bank.

Matthew Gudgin (07:29):
So if you wanted to cook with it, one of these leaves, chop it roughly and in whatever.

Chris Skinner (07:33):
You can put it in. And what I do is I get two or three of the leaves, they're ready to pick now. As long as you don't hurt the plant, one or two leaves missing off it. They're long, large shape leaves about six inches, 150 mil long. And what I do, I get a leaf and just chop it gently with some scissors into little shreds and I pop it in my olive oil. And then I have Garlic flavoured olive oil. And the other thing I like to do is if you have a cheese sandwich, something like that, you can see I live really well Matthew, and you get some scissors and just chop it up and put it and eat it raw in the cheese sandwich. And it absolutely is lovely. And funny enough not, it smells worse than it tastes if I put it like that. So the taste is actually quite mild. So it is quite surprising.

Matthew Gudgin (08:28):
But the smell is very well, very much reminiscent of garlic, I'd say that's a very pleasant smell to me.

Chris Skinner (08:34):
Yes. And I just going to role another leaf up so that we...

Matthew Gudgin (08:40):
Just getting some roll-ups going here. We're not going to smoke it though.

Chris Skinner (08:45):
I'm not going to just smoke wild garlic, but my hands are now sort of permeated with it and it's given a lovely smell. But when you're out walking in, particularly the Norfolk countryside at this time of the year, we've got some good old clay lands. And the wild garlic or ransoms loves the heavy soil with chalk in. It's important that the pH is quite high and it thrives there. So when you're walking through, you're suddenly as though somebody you perhaps you're walking with suddenly smells of garlic. And it's because you've brushed past these plants and it really is a sort of heady mix.

Matthew Gudgin (09:21):
And the telltale is these white flowers.

Chris Skinner (09:23):
Yes. And it looks like if you ever let onions in your garden go to seed, it will produce a flower rather like this. It grows from a bulb down there and it comes back every year.

(09:36):
So it's perennial and really delightful as well. So I absolutely love it and it's good to eat as well. So a little bit extra. But as I've taught you when you visit High Ash Farm, all the different visits that we do, I encourage you and everybody else as well to just use your eyes and your senses. And you'll notice there's cuckoo pint that we saw last week.

Matthew Gudgin (10:03):
Oh yes.

Chris Skinner (10:03):
They're just coming out. We visited that one. Cuckoo pint, arum maculartum, and then you can see some other white flowers just ahead some there and some by the fence.

Matthew Gudgin (10:16):
Oh, the ones with the drooping heads.

Chris Skinner (10:18):
Yes. If I just move over a little bit, just look at this and although the perfume from this plant is massed by the wild garlic. This is lily of the valley. Just look at it.

Matthew Gudgin (10:35):
A very famous flower.

Chris Skinner (10:36):
Oh, absolutely. So singly, it comes up in little bunches like this with between 10 and 20 little bells on if you like.

Matthew Gudgin (10:45):
All drooping.

Chris Skinner (10:46):
Yes. Drooping down very demurely. And it's a plant that is nowhere near as common as it was even in my childhood, 50, 60, 70 years ago now. It was growing everywhere and some has been dug, modern agriculture has stolen the habitat it likes to grow in. It grows on damp verges underneath hedges and things. So it was incredibly common. But the leaves, you can see they're almost identical to the ransoms here, these

Matthew Gudgin (11:17):
Big green, very long leaves.

Chris Skinner (11:19):
They look exactly the same, don't they? And yet they're poisonous. So you mustn't, that's why you have to be, they are deadly poisonous. I mean if you ate a lot of them you'd certainly be in hospital, you'd have to have your stomach pumped out and not very pleasant at all. And all parts of the plant are poisonous. Yet it has this fabulous, fabulous perfume coming from it. At this time of the year, I can't bend down and pick one because I don't want to. I regard them as protected. Another one just coming out there.

Matthew Gudgin (11:53):
And there are only very few and far between in this patch.

Chris Skinner (11:55):
Yes, are they do go right through, but we're lucky enough to sort of see the ransoms.

Matthew Gudgin (12:00):
Well, I'm glad you mentioned it because I mean we're telling people to pick leaves from white flowers and there they are poisonous.

Chris Skinner (12:07):
Exactly, exactly that. And yes, so it's obviously a member of the lily family. And of course the week before last we looked at the Bluebell here at the farm, and that's its sort woodland cousin if you like. So it does growing in semi shade like this, exactly like these ransoms do. But early in the morning here, and I often tour around the farm and check everything's okay as I drive past this bit, right the other side of the heads. The whole aroma is sort of wafting through the wood in the sort of damp morning air and it's really glorious and you can kind of close your eyes and you know exactly what time of year it is. Late April, early May in that period, it comes into flour without fail every year. Both of them, the lily of the valley and the ransoms.

Matthew Gudgin (12:56):
My hand smells of garlic now.

Chris Skinner (12:57):
Yes you do. We are doomed. Yes. No, we'll be shunned, both of us for the rest of the day. There we are. Two little treats for you and we've now got to move nearly right across the farm to see the next one, which is even more delightful.

Matthew Gudgin (13:13):
Ransoms and lily of the valley.

Chris Skinner (13:15):
Yes

Matthew Gudgin (13:25):
Dappled sunlight through the trees here, which are now very well leaved. And we're just walking in a little way in amongst the bluebells, which still look a very respectable lot, don't they?

Chris Skinner (13:36):
Yes, Matthew. We've changed aspects. We've come across to the other side of High Ash Farm now and we're on a north facing slope. And I think two weeks ago we were on the other side of this woodland and the south side and the bluebells were all gone over there. And here in front of us looking over the crest of the hill, there's a really respectable display, lovely old beech tree beside us, lost its head in 1987 and snapped off about 20 feet up and I decided to leave it and it's just a honeycomb of hollows and nesting site. And other years barn owls have nested, sorry tawny owls have nested in near the peak of the tree, lots of loose spark on it and it's a brilliant place for insects like queen wasps to hibernate as well. And a bumblebee going in at the base. Buff tail Bumblebee. Just going in. Yeah, just going in. And she's obviously found that to be an ideal place for the next generation of Bumbles.

Matthew Gudgin (14:44):
Just little thing like just leaving it.

Chris Skinner (14:46):
Yes, it is surprising looking after nature. It's as much about to do as what not to do. They're almost equal. It sounds very perverse, but it works. And that's why the farm is just burgeoning with wildlife now. You just have to learn what each species requires. We're going to just walk in a little bit more. I won't tax you too much.

Matthew Gudgin (15:12):
I'm up to a bit of walking you know.

Chris Skinner (15:14):
 And got to start to use my eyes very carefully because this is quite, yes, I can see something already. Yeah, I can see a couple in front of us. I can also hear a military plane over his, just look at this Matthew.

Matthew Gudgin (15:36):
Oh, that's not a bluebell is It's the wrong colour for a start.

Chris Skinner (15:39):
It's the wrong colour. He's got some terrible names. This plant, this is called a bloody butcher, is one of its names because the leaves at the base of the plant. See if I can part the bluebell leaves if we can see one. There we are. Look, something's been nibbling the leaves off, but they're speckled with either dark brown spots or dark red spots.

Matthew Gudgin (16:06):
It looks like there's been a dreadful accident. And there those blood spots.

Chris Skinner (16:10):
It's meant to symbolise the death of Jesus on the cross, hence bloody butcher. It's got, I should think 15 names. And it's the early Purple Orchid. It's one of the earliest orchids to come out at the farm here. Another one over there just beginning to go over, just beginning to be past its best.

Matthew Gudgin (16:31):
They're not as tall as the blue bells are they?

Chris Skinner (16:33):
No. In the right soil type they more or less are the height of the bluebells. But because we're on the north facing slope, the blue bells are fighting for daylight. And what's deceptive here is you came a week or so ago if you did, the bluebells are only half the height and what's happened is the leaves have all gone onto the ground on the bluebells, virtually finished their year's work.

(16:59):
And it's just left the bluebells standing on these tall stalks, probably 18 inches tall. And that early purple orchid, sometimes they're an equal height of the bluebells. This particular one's about halfway down, but very beautiful demurely pink and lots of appearances through history of this particular early purple orchid. Now orchids is interesting because the Latin for orchid is testicle and if you dug an orchid up, which I'm not going to do, it's also called dogs stones because the two tubers at the base of the orchid, there's one always larger than the other one's filling up for next year's flowers. The other is being depleted by the leaves and this year's flowers, so they're always an odd size, but they're called double ovoid tubers. And they're two joined together. So they do look rather like testicles, hence dog stones. And they used to be dug up quite regularly all over the UK because they will grow right down on south downs, right up into the Scottish board as it was one of the commonest orchids of all the earliest one to come into flower. And now they're getting quite scarce now. But they were dug up, the little tubers were dried and useless an aphrodisiac.

(18:27):
I dunno if it ever made any difference. But there we are. And it does appear in history. I think it was Shakespeare's Ophelia. I had to learn this at school and I wasn't too impressed with Shakespeare, I must be honest. But the English teacher knew I was interested. It was Mr. White at Bracondale school knew I was interested in nature. So he kind of fostered that bit in me to some extent. And he said Skinner will be able to read the next verse out. And I think it was chapter four verse seven if I'm right, all those years ago. And it's in Hamlet and it was referring to Ophelia who had drowned and her coffin was draped in early purples, which is this flower, but it isn't a kind of denote of sorrow. It was a kind of sexual connotation attached to it. And Shakespeare picked that up because of the reputation that orchids had.

(19:29):
And so there we are. So you've got a little bit of English literature thrown in and it made it into Hamlet, would you believe long purples. And that's another nickname for them because they are quite tall compared to many of the other orchid species. So there we are, but let's just have a little look at the flowers. Very delicate, very beautiful pink with a lobe at the bottom of the flower. And they do have a perfume. It's being masked by the fact I've been rolling garlic in my hand and the bluebell's giving out their perfume. But it's a very delicate perfume. But now if we moved over there and sniffed that one, it's almost vanilla when it first comes into flower. That one over there, if we both got on our hands and knees had a sniff, it can only be described as cats urine.

(20:22):
It changes. And we think there's a lot of thought going in about why plants change their perfume after they've been pollinated and it's to stop insects visiting them anymore so they don't double pollinate. Look, bumblebee just come in and just going down to the root. So that tree and gone in another queen bumblebee.

Matthew Gudgin (20:46):
Yeah, that's a different tree.

Chris Skinner (20:47):
I'm so easily distracted. It's gone and it's not come out.

Matthew Gudgin (20:51):
So what's going on in there then?

Chris Skinner (20:53):
They're setting up a new bumblebees nest, another buff tail bumblebee because we had thousands and thousands here last year on the pollen and nectar fields. And they then hibernate all the young, the juveniles all die apart from the queens. They're the only ones to survive. So all the worker bumblebees die.

Matthew Gudgin (21:14):
Here we are.

Chris Skinner (21:15):
And yet that's another one. And she's gone down as well. So if you sat here long enough, you'd see several different species, all nesting in the ground and they're bumbling her out, finding mouse holes.

(21:27):
So she's off gathering nectar and she'll have a tiny little nectar pot that's open at the top. So on cold days when she can't go out and forage, this is the bufftail bumblebee, the queen that we just saw. And she will find some nectar and cold days. They will harvest that nectar. She can feed when it's too wet to go out and hunt for more pollen and nectar and she'll start about a dozen little cells off and they'll be the queen, the queen's offspring because she's fertilised from last year by a male drone bumblebee of the right species and the way it all goes again, so complete circle, but we're surrounded by a sea of blue on this north slope. It's really unusual. And I said nature gets on at such a pace and these were kind of held in abeyance, the ones because it was much cooler, this side of the slope than the other side.

(22:28):
So there we are.

Matthew Gudgin (22:29):
It's a lovely site though, isn't it?

Chris Skinner (22:30):
It is, isn't it?

Matthew Gudgin (22:31):
And the bluebells will be going over pretty rapidly

Chris Skinner (22:34):
Yes, a week now. All the bottom flowers are now finishing just about, and I can see some here. And you start to form these little pods at the base. Oh, here's a better one. Look, little pod just forming there, a larger one there. And they will gradually swell and each pod and there must be going to be 20 on that particular stem has all these little shiny black seeds in about the size of a pin's head or even smaller. And they will stay in the cups which then face upwards. Not like the bluebell flowers, whichdemurely hang downwards and get the autumn gales and they swing the seed about and throw it all over the place. But there's no room for anything else here to grow. Look at it. It's bluebell against bluebell

Matthew Gudgin (23:20):
And there's another one of the Bumbles there.

Chris Skinner (23:22):
Yes. Yep. They're everywhere. Look at that. Just going around old mouse burrows or under hollow trees. Perfect.

Matthew Gudgin (23:41):
Well this is fabulous here because it's a warm summer's day, but we're in the cool of the woodland here, just as the bluebells in Foxes Grove start to go over and we're in the trees here and you've got me to sit down.

Chris Skinner (23:57):
Yes, Matthew. I've had an ambition to show you some of the bird species here at the farm for several years. And some of them are really, really difficult. They're about as rare as hen's teeth, almost. One of them would be the lesser spot woodpecker or the bard woodpecker. The other one is a gold crest. And the third one, which is why we've come to this particular spot of woodland, is a tree creeper. And in front of us about 10-15 yards away is a completely dead sweet chestnut tree with lots of burrs on the trunk. And the first bur, which is about six feet above the ground, the big one facing us.

Matthew Gudgin (24:50):
Yes. Got it.

Chris Skinner (24:51):
And just on the left hand side of it, about foot down, you can see a white birds dropping. Can see that?

Matthew Gudgin (25:00):
Yes.

Chris Skinner (25:00):
Good. Now one foot exactly above it just to the right is a smaller bur attached to the large one.

(25:11):
And it's just at the base of that is a hole. We can't see it from here. It's just underneath. It's about three four inches across. So it's one foot above that white bird dropping. And that is the nest side of a tree creeper. And if you've never seen a tree creeper, they're tiny. The body length is two inches, 50 mil from head to end of body and the tail and the beak add another couple of inches or so. So talking about 125 mil total tiny little bird, it looks more like a moth than a bird. And it lives and spends entire life in and around trees. So it doesn't really ever go on the ground. And what we're watching for is the parents to come back so we're not too close to the tree in order to disturb them. And hopefully we'll be lucky. I'll just focus my binoculars in as well. So I'm ready to go.

Matthew Gudgin (26:20):
We've each got a pair of binoculars and I'm focusing in on where the hole is.

Chris Skinner (26:24):
Okay. Now it's just a case of sitting and waiting.

Matthew Gudgin (26:29):
Aren't tree creepers the species that go up and down the trunks backwards?

Chris Skinner (26:34):
Well, no, no. They go head upwards always. But what they do is they start at the bottom of a tree and they're strictly insectivorous. They will take eggs from moths and larvae insects as well. And they absolutely love aphids at this time of the year as well. So any insect, they've got a long down curved beaks so they can prize in amongst the bark that peels off trees like this in front of us, and often they'll nest behind the bark. But in this case, in front of us, they found a tiny hole underneath this sort of growth on the outside of the tree. And they're nesting in that grey squirrel in the background skirting round. And so the beautiful birds, a lot of people think they're related to woodpeckers. And we have all three species of British. Oh, oh, there you go. Matthew.

(27:36):
Has it gone in? It's gone in the hole.

Matthew Gudgin (27:40):
I saw it land. Yes.

Chris Skinner (27:41):
You saw it land tiny little moth like creature. And it's gone in and it's presumably taken some insects in there, beige on the back, sort of brown and black stripes, completely beautifully camouflaged against the trunk of that tree. It's the same colour and underneath, I've seen all sorts of different colours on them. In winter months they can almost be green, the plumage on the breasts because they press themselves harder against tree trunks and the algae can rub off. And this time of the year they're almost silvery white underneath. Really grumpy little looking birds with long eyebrows sort of beetling eyebrows we call them. But I was explaining that they're not related to woodpeckers at all because woodpeckers feet is perfectly adapted for climbing trees. Two toes facing forwards on the woodpecker, two toes facing backwards.

(28:42):
Whereas with tree creepers, they're normal, just like normal birds passerin birds' feet, three toes facing forwards and one toe facing backwards. And yet they're so light and flimsy, birds, weak legs, tiny little razor sharp claws, almost microscopic. And they go up trees as far as they can get to the top until it's not worth hunting anymore up there. And then they'll fly down and land at the base of another tree and that's their habit. But you could see that one just landed on the trunk, a foot also beneath the nest hole and then shot up into the nest because they're very prone, like all whole nesting.

Matthew Gudgin (29:25):
I think I might've seen him leave.

Chris Skinner (29:27):
Yes. Yeah. Oh, right. I was talking so much.

Matthew Gudgin (29:30):
No, no,

Chris Skinner (29:31):
it came out and flitted off?

Matthew Gudgin (29:34):
 I think that's right.

Chris Skinner (29:36):
So that would be about the normal time that the female would come in and feed the brood. And the male is also coming in and feeding as well. So we've got both sexes. Trouble is they're nearly impossible to tell the difference between the male and the female. They look pretty much identical.

Matthew Gudgin (29:52):
As long as they know.

Chris Skinner (29:53):
I'm sure they do. And this is a happy nest site. And all whole nesting birds are quite vulnerable. Blue tits and tree creepers that we're watching at the moment just generally bring off one brood a year. Blue tits have 7, 8, 9 youngsters in a nest, treecreepers three or four. And yet tree creepers are sort of maintaining their population, whereas bluetits the population and great tits as well, they have about a 90% mortality rate and with tree keepers not quite as high as that. But when they come out, the young, the freshly fledged tree creeper, these tiny little mouse like birds follow mum and dad round. And at nighttime when they roost, it's the most extraordinary site because my father in 1953 coronation year planted a Wellingtonia tree at Caistor St. Edmund's Church right in the entrance. And when the bottom branch is dropped out of that, they leave little sockets and the tree trunk keeps growing and you have these little holes left. You can just about get your index finger in. And if you watch carefully at those trees, you will see there's little white marks. The droppings come out to the back and the tree creepers actually roost in Wellingtonia trees because it's all nice and warm in these tiny little sockets, three or four inches deep, just perfect for them. But so we've been waiting about five minutes, we should have the next bird come along and hopefully bring some tasty morsels for those youngsters in there.

Matthew Gudgin (31:39):
The real treat about this is tree creepers aren't that well known. Oh, there we are. I think I can see something on the trunk,

Chris Skinner (31:46):
Right?

Matthew Gudgin (31:48):
They are tiny, aren't they?

Chris Skinner (31:50):
They're absolutely tiny.

Matthew Gudgin (31:51):
And they're the same colour as the trunk as well.

Chris Skinner (31:53):
That's the trouble. The body's about the same size as a cotton reel to give you an idea.

Matthew Gudgin (31:58):
But they're not widely known because of course they don't appear really on garden bird tables.

Chris Skinner (32:02):
No, they don't insectivorous and spend. The only time they've really become visible is late spring, early summer this time of the year. In fact, when they're nesting like this and they're very obliging because they're generally spending a lot of time on the same tree. Hopefully one will come back and we'll be able to see it. And they do have an incredibly high pitched call, which kind of tails off with a little flourish right at the end. But it's almost past my hearing range now as I'm entering, sort of getting older is the only way to put it. You tend to lose the top end of your hearing and it's very, very high pitched sound. So we just stay quiet for a minute and then hopefully we'll have one come back and entertain us. Matthew's just going back to get the questions while we're sitting here waiting for another visit. I know, I know what will happen. As soon as soon as he's walked back to the truck, which is only about 50 yards away, I'll probably get a visit. This is bird watching for you. The sunlight is coming through the trees, which are getting there fully interleaf at the moment.

(33:37):
I'm sitting underneath a giant sycamore tree. So this dappled shade on the woodland floor and the tree creepers nest is just in the sunlight, perfectly lit at the moment. And I'm looking up through the leaves of the sycamore and they'll have little black dots on the underside of the leaf and their little colonies of aphids, which are setting up residents. And that's all great food for all the insect eating birds. And I can hear stock dove cooing in the background. Sounds a little bit like a cuckoo.

Matthew Gudgin (34:19):
Have I missed anything?

Chris Skinner (34:20):
No, Matthew's, come back. Here's the microphone. Gad. I will carry on watching the tree and you can read this week's questions out. I'll have the binoculars ready,

Matthew Gudgin (34:35):
Got some questions emailed to us, and always lovely to get all your messages. James Standish is a self-confessed avid listener. He's asking Chris to solve his wall basket problem. And there's a picture here of the wall baskets with flowers in, but the chicken wire has been chewed through what has sharp teeth to cut wire mesh and make such perfect holes? He asks.

Chris Skinner (35:02):
Oh, that's an easy one. Really. It's a bank vole, voles are vegetarian. Remember shrews are insectivorous and bank vole is incredibly common. There's what between 25 and 30 million bank voles in the UK and with the other species of voles added together, there's more voles in the UK by far than they are humans. We are totaling about 70 million now. Now bank voles have incredibly sharp incisors. They're orange on the years ago. It brings back memories of coypu, which had these very long curved incisors. The two teeth at the top of the jaw, voles, bank voles in particular have similar incisors. And outside of the tooth is rock hard. It's got a very high iron content in the inner side of the tooth is much softer that wears away and the teeth are continually growing. But it leaves a razor sharp chisel edge, which the wire mesh on your basket is no problem at all for them to north through. And if you had a little trail camera, you'd be rewarded with seeing the bank valves going in and out of your hanging basket or what's left of it.

Matthew Gudgin (36:23):
Hello to John in Briston. Who says this chap and shows a photograph?

Chris Skinner (36:29):
I do see there. Oh, just got it,

Matthew Gudgin (36:31):
Got it. Tree creeper. Tree creeper

Chris Skinner (36:33):
There.

Matthew Gudgin (36:33):
There's in the sun

Chris Skinner (36:34):
 In the sun. Oh, perfect.

Matthew Gudgin (36:35):
Beautiful little bird. Look at that

Chris Skinner (36:37):
 Tiny. And it's going up the tree just above the nest box. The nest hole, I should say.

Matthew Gudgin (36:42):
Few birds live up to their names quite as well. Yeah, there we go. Just around the corner. Yes. Creeping up the tree trunk.

Chris Skinner (36:49):
Exactly. That tree creeper. Wow. Cor, we waited 10 minutes for that and it's worth it in the sun. Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Matthew Gudgin (36:59):
And I've got to see a tree creeper properly.

Chris Skinner (37:02):
There you go. Yeah. Two more to go. Really. Lesser spotted woodpecker and the gold crest.

Matthew Gudgin (37:08):
I'm sure. John, you don't mind just your question being interrupted there. We're sort of sitting here in the woodlands looking out for tree creepers and answering questions at the same time. But John in Briston wants to identify this bird. He's photographed, brown looking bird. I suspect that a starling might not have grown that much yet as it's early May. So is this a young starling? He wonders.

Chris Skinner (37:31):
It certainly is a young starling. It doesn't have the same plumage colour as their parents. It's much grayer and duller. And this is the time of year, second week in May that young starlings fledge and have this very harsh call. They usually stay together in a family group. Mum, dad, 2, 3, 4, and occasionally five youngsters. And I've got them nesting three nests above the porch in my house. And boy, don't they make some noise at four in the morning.

Matthew Gudgin (38:04):
Hello, Chris Hanley. Chris listens to the podcast in Derbyshire at Castleton in the lovely peak district in the shadow of Mam Torr there. Chris, if I remember rightly. And Chris says, we enjoy the podcast, a must listen every week. The limestone gorge up to the entrance of the cavern that I look after has many lords and ladies, apparently Chris's job is to look after a cavern called the Devil's Arse.

Chris Skinner (38:31):
Oh my word.

Matthew Gudgin (38:33):
So he's trying to outdo your lords and ladies from last week. And there's a picture he sent in of the Lords and ladies and some very close up shots as well. Very much reminiscent of what we saw last week.

Chris Skinner (38:44):
Yes, perfect photograph. Very, very brilliant description. They say, picture says a thousand words almost. And that photograph, I'll see if we can, I'll ask my son to put it on the farm website so you can see exactly what we were talking about.

Matthew Gudgin (39:01):
Very alien looking.

Chris Skinner (39:02):
 Yes, it is alien looking plant, Arum maculartum

Matthew Gudgin (39:08):
Now Sue Lee lives in the Cotswolds. And Sue would like your opinion on No Mow May and encouraging wildlife without mowing or cutting hedges. Shouldn't we get farmers to stop cutting the hedge rows while the autumn berries and the birds winter food is still on there. Shouldn't they be cutting the hedges in January?

Chris Skinner (39:28):
Yes, but there's a huge amount that's changed out in the Norfolk countryside. Years ago, a lot of the hedges were cut by hand. Now they're cut with mechanical hedge trimmers. We have one at the farm here. To give you an idea of the cost, it was just short of £30,000. The tractor that it's mounted on is well over £100,000. And to cut our hedges here at High Ash Farm is three weeks, nearly four weeks solid work. And that's only a third of the hedges here at the farm. We have close on 30 miles of hedges. And you don't just drive down one side, you have to do two widths on each side. Many of the hedges are 7, 8, 9 feet tall and the top, so it is five times the distance. So we cut a third of the hedges every year. The roadside ones for safety, we do every year.

(40:23):
But it was such a wet autumn last year. Many people contract hedge cutting and they can't get on the land. And we've got permissive walks here at the farm. And to take a six tonne tractor on the tracks in January this year was impossible. And of course those people have to earn a living from it. So it is really difficult to get the timing right. But I completely agree with you. No Mow May is a great thing. We leave all our wild meadows until when into September before their mown and the tops are removed and the hedges only a third every year is cut.

Matthew Gudgin (41:01):
Julian Lawrence sends in a handwritten map a bit like a Winnie the Pooh one Julian of Halesworth says basically leading us to where we are sitting now because Julian has visited the farm in recent times and seen your tree creepers.

Chris Skinner (41:16):
 He certainly has. And he's guided to this spot. We've had to have numerous phone calls. So he's now in my phone as Julian Lawrence, Do not answer. We've had so many calls, but thank you Julian. You have set us up. We're sitting underneath the tree close to one of the tree creeper sites that we have here at the farm. And Matthew's sitting on damp ground. So the less said, the better.

Matthew Gudgin (41:42):
And Julian, who lives in London just talking about the podcast saying these episodes are a lifeline to city dwellers.

Chris Skinner (41:50):
Excellent. That's exactly what we like to hear. And yes, it's so easy to forget we're being spoiled here. We're sitting on a hillside and a lovely old dead tree with tree creepers popping in and out of their nest site. Bluebells going over. It's beautifully shaded. It's just a piece of heaven. Heaven.

Matthew Gudgin (42:08):
Well, thank you Chris, for showing me and talking to everyone about tree creepers today and to Julian as well, who spotted it on one of his visits. And there are permissive paths around the farm. So especially with this good weather, how about spending an afternoon walking around High Ash Farm because you do it every day?

Chris Skinner (42:27):
Yes, I do. And the walking's all for free. I think there's about seven miles of permissive walking and enough to keep you occupied for a couple of three hours at least without walking back on the same spot. So welcome to the countryside is what I say.

Matthew Gudgin (42:43):
Keep the emails coming, chris@countrysidepodcast.co.uk. We can't put every single question on the podcast, but Chris reads everyone, don't you?

Chris Skinner (42:55):
Yes, I certainly do. I'm very well read.

Matthew Gudgin (42:58):
Well, you proved that earlier with your Shakespeare, didn't you?

Chris Skinner (43:01):
Of course, yes, yes. Ophelia. It's chapter four verse seven. Perfect. In Hamlet.

Matthew Gudgin (43:08):
I thought it was Simon and Garfunkel. Ophelia, you're breaking my heart.

Chris Skinner (43:12):
No, that was Cecilia or the flower I grow at the farm, which is called Phacelia. Phacelia, you're breaking my heart. I think that's more than enough.