Episode 29: Counting Hares

Chris Skinner (00:29):

Morning everybody. It's exactly five o'clock in the morning and it's the spring equinox today, exactly 12 hours daylight and 12 hours nighttime. So at midday today, the sun will be bang over the top of the equator and it's the dawn chorus time. And there's a blackbird singing right above my head in the middle of the farm yard. What a lovely sound. Oh, listen to that.

Matthew Gudgin (02:21):

I am on High Ash Farm again, which is situated not far from Norwich in the east of England and the wildlife's all around us. It's spring, it's grey morning, but it's bright and it's mild as well. And our host, the king of the wild frontier himself. Chris Skinner, farmer. Chris.

Chris Skinner (02:41):

Good morning, Matthew. Good morning everybody. Welcome to High Ash Farm and we're into spring now. We've been following some of the wildflowers, which make an early appearance here at the farm. And this morning there's no exception because we are in a little green patch in the middle of a seven acre field. It looks a little bit odd and I haven't cultivated this little area. There's over winter wild bird seed mix all around us. It's a small field, seven acres surrounded by a huge tall hedge along the bottom there, dressed up bright white this morning with the blackthorn coming into flower and down around our feet, our tiny little yellow flowers in about an hour's time, once the sun's up a little bit more because it's early morning, they'll be open. And the best way to describe them is they look exactly like yellow daisies, but they're not.

(03:41)
 The plant's name is Tussilago farfararra, which that's the Latin name. But the common name says everything about the plant. It's called colts foot. And it's also got lots of nicknames and one that I love. It's called Sun Before Father. 

Matthew Gudgin (04:01):

Sun Before Father? Colts Foot?

(04:02)
 Chris Skinner:

(04:03)
 Yes, Colt's foot. But you have to think about it because it's one of nature's most impatient wild flowers. It comes into flower before it comes into leaf. It's really odd. So if we go down on our hands and knees little bit, the ground is quite heavy clay, it's not been cultivated for four or five years. And you can see one here, it's now going to open up bright, bright yellow. It's about a hundred millimetres tall, little scales all the way out the stalk and no plant leaves around the base of it. And the tussilargo part of it is really an old name for cough.

(04:49)
 And it used to be used for treating horses that had a bad cough because the leaves look lung shaped as well. The early chemists thought that if the leaf or the flower of a particular plant looked like some particular part of the human anatomy, then it would be used as a cure. And so the leaves were ground up and made into a powder together with the little flowers as well. And it was used quite regularly way back then in early times. And lots of flowers to come here to there just under my hand there. And the whole ground is going to be bright yellow in about a week's time. It really gets us, it's nature's one of nature's most impatient flowers. So I just love all the history to it. But later on the leaves start to emerge. There's one or two right over there in the distance, and it's called colt's foot for a reason because the size of the leaves are about the size of a colt or a young horse's hoof, and they're very soft and downy.

(05:58)
 I'll just go over on my hands and knees and we'll have a look on the underside of a leaf. The top is kind of heart shaped. It does look lung shaped, and if I look underneath, it's almost white and it's very soft and furry on the underside of a leaf. And so that's where it gets its common name from which I said explains everything about the plant. But there's literally hundreds of these yellow flowers to come out with. They're really odd. They look really, really ancient, really, because there's just no leaves. They're just these little bracks on the stalks, hugging the little flower stem very closely.

Matthew Gudgin (06:38):

And you mentioned horses. Would a horse graze on that?

Chris Skinner (06:40):

Yes, they do graze them. It's really a plant that likes poorly drained, compacted soil. So you'll sometimes see it going around the coast of the United Kingdom and sometimes on very poor agricultural land that hasn't been drained, that gets waterlogged and it seems to like those conditions. But because it comes out really early, the horses that used to graze these fields, many of them were old pastures, would actually graze the leaves. But in a cereal crop, it's quite a problem because the leaves grow in June and July and it would be impossible for the binder. And later on the combine, it would clog all the intake orders up on the combine because there's so much green material. So it's a plant that you don't see quite so much of. Anyway, that's an early one. Just look, there's a flock of pigeons coming in behind us to graze on any grains that are left. And this will be reseeded in about two to three weeks time. Once the weather warms up a little bit, it'll be put back to over winter wild bird seed mix. But as we drove here, a lovely flock of yellow hammers all the way down the hedges that we saw. And it's a lovely time of year before everything comes into leaf shortly and obscures the wildlife. It's a really good time to come out into the countryside. 

Matthew Gudgin (08:02):

We even saw a march hare, didn't we? Although this march hare wasn't mad in the least. He was just having a snooze.

Chris Skinner (08:07):

He was having a snooze because they're very busy at night, but we won't go into that. But later on, in about half an hour's time or so, we will be going round the farm looking at some of the hares. We've got a special trick that we use here at the farm to count them. And I've already done two or three fields and I'm up to number 34 hares so far. And so we've got one field to do and you can join me for that in a short while.

Matthew Gudgin (08:42):

We're on another part of the farm and it is getting brighter now as Chris promised. And it's a really lovely march morning. And we're by one of the little water courses here, little brook drainage ditch coming through and it looks full of at the moment. And Chris, what have we got here? It looks like you've got a lot of nettles.

Chris Skinner (08:59):

Yeah, exactly that Matthew stinging nettles and water flowing through at the bottom of the ditch. 

(09:06)
 Matthew Gudgin:

(09:06)
 Looks lovely and clean though. 

(09:08)
 Chris Skinner:

(09:08)
 And it is. You can see there's a gravel bottom. There'll be fresh water shrimp in there quite shortly. And that's joining the River Tass about half a mile from where we're standing. It's one of the tributaries, one of the feeder streams for the river. And on the other bank there, which is south facing, we've got celandines just opening up. They shut up at night and then open up till mid-morning. And bright yellow flowers, just if you're walking anywhere near damp ground this spring, watch out for celandines. One of my favourite flowers, I think I've said this before, but William Wordsworth had described it beautifully bright as the sun himself, perfect description of them. Lovely. So they love that wet habitat, feet in the water almost, and they're growing really well.

(09:59)
 But you picked out stinging nettles and about three weeks ago we looked at one of the nettle family with the word dead in the name, and we looked at the Red dead nettle and it's got a cousin, which has also got dead in the name, and it also comes in flower really, really early. And as a schoolboy. I used to pull the little white flowers, it's called white dead nettle out, and there'd be a tiny drop of nectar at the bottom of it. You could suck that and then you'd pull the plant out and chase the girls with it because they thought it was a stinging nettle at the nearby school, Notre Dame School in Norwich. That was a favourite trick. 

(10:42)
 Matthew Gudgin:

(10:42)
 Well, you were a terror, you were!

(10:43)
 Chris Skinner: 

(10:43)
 They'd scream and run away, so it wasn't really the right intention. But here we've got a patch of stinging nettles.

(10:52)
 Down on my hands and knees. Again, these are stingers, but you can see some in amongst them, a slightly paler. Can you see? There's five there, one near you and there's a large one here in full flower. And we used this word I think last week to describe the way these particular plants flower is called a whorl. The flowers go right the way around the stem and they have a hood on them and they're just opening up this week. So usually around the time of the spring equinox, they come into flower. 

(11:27)
 Matthew Gudgin:

(11:27)
 They're almost orchid like those flowers aren't they? 

(11:29)
 Chris Skinner:

(11:29)
 They are really beautiful. There's another member which also doesn't sting, which comes into flower late May and into June. It's called yellow archangel. And that looks exactly the same, but none of those sting. Whereas if I put my hand in there, they're stingers, but I'm lucky I've got hands like leather and I don't get stung.

(11:49)
 But if I asked you to do it, you'd go Ouch, because freshly emerged stinger nettles, which are also really valuable. You'll see lots of butterflies coming out of hibernation at this time of year. Things like peacocks, small tortoiseshells as well, but also come out of hibernation and they'll be looking for these young stinging nettles. They're the same butterflies that were perhaps on your michaelmas daises last autumn. They hibernate. So their life's about six months long only, and then they lay their eggs early spring and then they die. That's the butterflies. But this is a really important plant for them, early source of nectar, just to give them that energy after that long six months sleep over the winter months and white bed nettle, which this one is perfect, but you can see the leaves look exactly like the stinging nettles here. Ouch. I did get stung there.

(12:49)
 I put my hand down backwards and touched one of the stingers. But yeah, so you can see it's got a 

(12:56)
 Matthew Gudgin:
Serrated edge. 

(12:57)
 Chris Skinner: 

(12:57)
 Yes, serrated edge, exactly like the stinging nettles. Both of them look the same. So when it's got that word dead in the name. So red dead nettle, white dead nettle, and the yellow archangel as well all look similar, but they don't sting. So this is perfect, absolutely perfect. Early provender for those freshly emerged butterflies from hibernation, remember those butterflies hibernate as adults and had a treat during the week, just having my lunch. Looked out the window and a male brimstone flew past the window. Bright sulphur, yellow probably gave its names to butterfly itself because it just looked like butter flying. Love it. So there we are, another couple of early spring wildflowers. Now we've got some proper work to do. We've got some, are you good at maths?  

(13:51)
 Matthew Gudgin:

(13:51)
 You might've hit upon one of my weak points. 

 Chris Skinner:

 So we've got to do a partridge and hare count now. So we've got to hop back in the truck and I'll show you how we do it.  

(14:14)
 Matthew Gudgin: 

Got raven! Chris, we were just heading off to another part of the farm and you suddenly said, yes, Raven, 

(14:18)
 Chris Skinner:

 Matthew, a raven. Yes. It just flew past us and it's come down on the pasture next to two carrion crows and it's double the size of it. I saw one about a year ago after a report that somebody walking on the farm has seen a raven here. And I said, no, I don't think so. And it's a thundering great bird and it's landed way out in the middle of the field. And you can see the size difference strutting very confidently. Really it's for carrion probably, but it's feeding out with the carrion crow, which is pretty large itself. And it's a good double the size. I could tell the way it flew past us immediately. It was something completely different, which it is. 

(15:05)
 Matthew Gudgin:

 But really we shouldn't have ravens here, shouldn't we? 

 Chris Skinner:

 No, they're just beginning to get moving southward. Something's happening whether they're being tolerated more. The only place you see them south of here is in the Tower of London, obviously, but really they're a bird of deserted coasts and particularly up in no western and northeast Scotland. And they feed on carrion. But that's a great big bird. 

Matthew Gudgin: 
So this one on the right is a raven. 

Chris Skinner:
Yes, that's a raven. You are so lucky. 

 Matthew Gudgin: 
Have you got binoculars?

 Chris Skinner:
Yes, I have got binoculars here.

 Matthew Gudgin:
 I quite like to see this. I've just haven't been to the Tower of London for a long time. 

(15:44)
 Chris Skinner: I just focus it in for you. So what you will notice is a huge bill and yep, there we are. I've got him. I'll pass the binoculars over of all you.

(16:00)
 Let's have a look. See if you can focus in, here's a good 150 metres away from us, but definitely a raven. Make sure he is on the right. 

(16:11)
 Matthew Gudgin: Shiny black plumage. 

(16:13)
 Chris Skinner: That's right. Yes. And a huge down curve bill there. Sort of massive meat eating tool. Yeah. Wow. You are so lucky. 

(16:25)
 Matthew Gudgin: Yeah, he's a big lad. 

(16:26)
 Chris Skinner: He is a big boy. Yes. Yeah, that's a first for me to see. I had one flow over the top of me, and as it flew over, it was croaking. So it was a completely different sound to carrion crows and obviously jackdaws and rooks as well. It's a really deep throaty call. And it has been here feeding with the large flock of jackdaws and rooks, and I thought it would've gone by now. Found a mate, but it hasn't. 

(16:56)
 Matthew Gudgin: So they're obviously accepted then. Yes. By the other birds.

(16:59)
 Chris Skinner: It was, yeah. It's all member of the same family. And for a moment, I thought it was a buzzard size bird flew past with the other two. 

(17:06)
 Matthew Gudgin: Will you have a look, Chris? 

(17:07)
 Chris Skinner:Yeah, I'll have another look. Just feast my eyes there. There he goes. You can see the comparison in the size there. That's flying next to Carrion Crow. They're flown away and that's a massive bird. Yep. Well done. Raven. Raven. That's a treat.

Matthew Gudgin (17:38):

I s ee. There we are. There's a deer leaping over there. Chinese water deer going for his morning jog.

Chris Skinner (17:50):

Good. This is the field we're going to do the survey on Matthew and yes, so Chinese water, deer, very common at the farm here, and we're now all be stopped and watched us. So now this is a special trick that we do. Kestral in front of us, going to hover just flying across in front and just landing in the tree there, rich pickings here, and we've got some string laid out. 

(18:26)
 Matthew Gudgin: It was a piece of blue rope, 

(18:29)
 Chris Skinner: nylon string, and we just drive over the top of it like that. Then I get out of the car and hook it on the drawbar and we then drive out and we turn in a circle, quite a big circle in closing about six or seven acres at a time. And we just count the hares. And particularly I'm a long-term member of the Partridge count scheme run by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust.

(18:57)
 And each year about this time I do the spring partridge count and two species, we can't, one's the red leg partridge and the others, the English partridge are only native species. Skyark just come up two, just hovering away.

(19:13)
 Matthew Gudgin: really fast wing movements. 

(19:15)
 Chris Skinner:They are? Yes. They're display hovering and oh wow, that's mating for you at speed or courtship, flying, I should say, where the male attacks a female and then vice versa, they take it in turns to kind of try and crash into each other. Right. I'll just hop out and hop the rope onto the back of the truck.

(19:36)
 Matthew Gudgin: So how long is this rope?

(19:39)
 Chris Skinner: 250 meters long, just attach that to the back of the truck and it's all stretched out behind us. Skylark behind you. So what we now do is drive off, it doesn't hurt anything it goes over the top of the cereals and it's just enough disturbance to move them along.

(19:59)
 There's our first hare running away down there. My loud voice has given the game away already. He's way over in the distance. 

(20:06)
 Matthew Gudgin: So do we count him then? 

(20:08)
 Matthew Gudgin:I'm still counting. Yes. So we've got our total so far and I hope with the addition of this field we, fingers crossed we'll get up to 50 hares in total. Another one there in front of us just running along the horizon towards those trees. But anyway, we'll see if we find any. And we've now got four Skylark right above us. 

(20:32)
 Matthew Gudgin: If this was a Skylark survey. We'd really be good in, wasn't we? 

(20:35)
 Chris Skinner: Yes, we would. Yes. Just shows you if you give wildlife the chance to thrive, it will come back. And skylark's obviously a red list species and that's just, I mean we're blowing the numbers away. You wouldn't believe. Anyway, hop in the truck. This is the easy bit now, just counting.

Matthew Gudgin (20:58):

So we've seen two hares on this piece of property here.

Chris Skinner (21:03):

Good. Right. Off we go. So it's very easy. So we will be able to look beside us shortly. So we'll pull out the string in a nice straight line to start with four wheel drive in, and now we can start to do our first turn. Any moment.

Matthew Gudgin (21:32):

This is about where you saw the second hare up here?

Chris Skinner (21:34):

Yes. Up here. Yes. So now a turn. And you just have to look slightly behind you and you'll see the string going across the top of the crop. 

(21:45)
 Matthew Gudgin: I can see it. Yes, yes.

Matthew Gudgin (21:52):

Now we're going back in different

Chris Skinner (21:54):

Directions. Yes. And we're about a hundred yards lower down the field and there's one right in front of us. Perfect. Still counting. I'm getting close to 40 hares on this morning's count now it started nice and early. You have to do it all on one day. Otherwise there's a danger of double counting. 

Matthew Gudgin (22:16):

And it's on a specific amount of land

Chris Skinner (22:18):

Yes it is. The area I'm done today will be 220 hectares. Another one. Good. 41, another one here, 42. These are all individuals, so we're not double count.

Matthew Gudgin (22:35):

Another one, three in front of us.

Chris Skinner (22:37):

Yes. Look at that. Oh wow. 

Matthew Gudgin (22:40):

They're looking really good, nick.

Chris Skinner (22:41):

Actually they are. They're very healthy. They're mixture of jack and doe hares. Nothing I promise you is being hurt or disturbed unnecessarily. But it's important to monitor what you've got. And they're,

Matthew Gudgin (22:57):

They're so difficult to see, aren't they?

Chris Skinner (22:59):

They're nigh impossible to see in a crop like this. But I am eagle eye for any partridges that we put up. So that's sort of equal doing two jobs at once.

Matthew Gudgin (23:11):

An account for the partridge isn't such a successful

Chris Skinner (23:14):

Thing. No, not at the moment, but we're not giving up yet. There's the string on the other side of us. So it's going to follow us round.

Matthew Gudgin (23:24):

Actually 250 metre.

Chris Skinner (23:25):

Yes. Yes. It's 300 odd yards. That's the length of it. Yes. And there's a little sort of heavy, another one. Oh, 43. But

Matthew Gudgin (23:34):

They really go the last minute don't they

Chris Skinner (23:36):

Yes, they do. Yeah. So excellent. 43. My target is 50. I've got one field to do after you've gone. And that would give me my total. So it looks as though we're going to get to 50.

(23:53)
 On a relatively small piece of Norfolk countryside.

Chris Skinner (23:56):

Yes. Yeah. You wouldn't imagine that. They're quite large mammals here. Each morning when I come here and feed down hedges by hand, I always see without fail muntjac deer and Chinese water deer. And when I'm lucky, actually see some roe deer as well. And it's a really good way because there's such an area for me to do. I'm doing it single-handed. That would've been nigh impossible to walk that you'd just get a taster of what's there. But the partridges are really difficult to see, particularly the English grey partridge perdix perdix. They hunker down and almost become invisible in a crop like this.

Matthew Gudgin (24:38):

Plus they are very rare, aren't they? I can see a hare behind us.

Chris Skinner (24:41):

Yes. Another one. 44.

Matthew Gudgin (24:44):

We spotted him in the wing mirror.

Chris Skinner (24:46):

Yep. So really harmless way of doing accounting quick as well. So a few minutes we've been going, we've done less than 15 minutes, I suppose. Another hare there

Matthew Gudgin (25:04):

Where?

Chris Skinner (25:05):

There two...

Matthew Gudgin (25:05):

Two got him two. Yes

Chris Skinner (25:07):

There. Squatted down. Hunkered down. No, they've disappeared in their own.

Matthew Gudgin (25:12):

There he goes.

Chris Skinner (25:12):

That's one gone.

Matthew Gudgin (25:14):

And the other one is hunkered. Really?

Chris Skinner (25:16):

Yes. There you can just see the silhouette now. That's what I'm talking about. Large mammal, virtually no cover, just there. And it's all to all intents and purposes. It's not visible, is it? It just doesn't look as though it exists there. So that is perfect.

Matthew Gudgin (25:34):

It'll be up in a second because that blue string

Chris Skinner (25:36):

Up. Yes.

Speaker 4 (25:40):

Come through.

Chris Skinner (25:42):

There we are. This is the last bit.

Matthew Gudgin (25:44):

Oh, there we are. See,

Chris Skinner (25:46):

Look at that. 47. I think we're going to make the 50 on this field alone. And I've got one more to do, which is a very promising field. Been another one. Yes. Another one there. 48.

Matthew Gudgin (26:05):

Wow. So you've seen probably double figures just on this field alone. Yes.

Chris Skinner (26:09):

Yeah, yeah. Yes. And I'm glad you're here because I think anybody listening would think I'm making this up and

Matthew Gudgin (26:17):

This is a large field, but still it's,

Chris Skinner (26:19):

Yeah, it's pretty impressive.

Matthew Gudgin (26:21):

It really does foster....

Chris Skinner (26:21):

I've got a smile on my face. Chinese water, deer, Chinese. And look here on the right, another one.

Matthew Gudgin (26:28):

All going at top speed hare.

Chris Skinner (26:30):

49

Matthew Gudgin (26:31):

Ears pointed skywood. A classic outline.

Chris Skinner (26:35):

Yep. And this is their home. They won't leave this field. Look Matthew in front. There you go. Number 50.

Matthew Gudgin (26:42):

That one looking completely unconcerned.

Chris Skinner (26:44):

Yes. Yep. And that will conclude the little circuit that we've done. We're now going to go over the top of the piece of string. 

Matthew Gudgin (26:55):

Now have you ever forgotten to not to

Chris Skinner (26:58):

Drive off to touch the string and drive off on the public road with your

Matthew Gudgin (27:02):

250 yard piece of string

Chris Skinner (27:04):

I do suffer from memory problems these days, but no, I haven't done that yet. Oh dear. They say how long's a piece of string, but that's the way we do it. Nothing's harmed whatsoever. The hares are not panicked whatsoever. And the sad thing is, and it's typical of much of the Norfolk countryside where we are anywhere, we didn't see any partridges in its perfect partridge territory. 

Matthew Gudgin (27:41):

Skylarks really are enjoying this early spring weather. We've had lots and lots of emails, haven't we, Chris? Which is terrific,

Chris Skinner (27:50):

Absolutely amazing response to the podcast Matthew.

Matthew Gudgin (27:53):

Anna James says, we always have some blue tits tapping at our bedroom windows early in the morning at this time of year, but this year we've had the blue tits joined by sparrows who are even more persistent and they tap at different windows all around the house all times during the day. Can you tell us what they're doing?

Chris Skinner (28:16):

Yes. Almost certainly. They're the males of the species, the male house sparrow and the male blue. The male blue t's really difficult to distinguish from the female, but basically they're seeing their reflection in the window. And if it's a male, he just says, I'm not having another male in my territory, so I'm going to try and get rid of it by pecking at the window, not realising it's just a reflection. So nice and easy to answer that one.

Matthew Gudgin (28:45):

Oliver says, having listened to the podcast last week, please if you can see them for a split second, confirm that these videos that I'm sending you are field mice. They moved into my poor feed house while it was hibernating. I've since put a couple more feed houses up for the hedgehogs. Oh, so the

Chris Skinner (29:05):

Little hedgehog symbols?

Matthew Gudgin (29:07):

Yes. These are difficult to read. Yeah, these are symbols that are sent. So they moved into my poor hedgehog feed house and it's comical watching the mice, watching the hedgehog at night. The video is not speeded up at all. They're fast. I love them. They're so funny.

Chris Skinner (29:25):

Yes, well done. You've got long tail field mice, not house mice there. They've got large ears and an extremely long tail and they move incredibly fast. They have a second name. They're also called wood mice.

Matthew Gudgin (29:40):

Got another email here from Norwich Thorpe and Andrew. And it's David Evan Jones. Hello David. Dear Chris Skinner, our nest box has been attacked. We've got some very good quality, not very good quality pictures to tell the story as well. And he goes through all the story here with great tit showing interest in the nest box and a squirrel as well. But after a few days nibbling, the hole is a lot bigger. The nest box today from outside is now in the video here as well. And sadly, I've not seen any recent visits by the tits. Driven off perhaps was the squirrel rather prematurely hoping to find eggs?

Chris Skinner (30:18):

Almost certainly. There's a picture from the video and you can see the hole in the blue tip nest box with a camera above there is ginormous.

Matthew Gudgin (30:27):

SO that hole has been enlarged.

Chris Skinner (30:28):

Yes. And the birds won't use it anymore, so it'll remain empty. The question is, is there anything he can do to stop that? And yes, you can get a really large steel washer for the right sized hole, about 33, 35 millimetre hole in, but if the washer is really large, you screw that over the nest entrance hole and that stops a squirrels biting further into the wood. So that's a brilliant way of stopping it without having to replace all your loveliness box. So thank you.

Matthew Gudgin (31:02):

Let's have a look. Oh yes, we've got one here from Darren who loves your podcast, Darren and Cromer informative and wonderful he says.

Chris Skinner (31:09):

yes, thank you very much.

Matthew Gudgin (31:11):

I'm sending you a picture of my house with a small hole just above my kitchen window. For the past six years, this has been used by blue tits for a nest. I've seen them for the last few weeks flying back and forth. I wondered how many times they have young and if it is passed down to the next generation as a nest or whether a new pair would take it on. Many thanks guys, and keep it up.

Chris Skinner (31:32):

There's the hole in the house, Matthew, just in the brickwork there. So the first question is the nest box can be used again next year if you're lucky. And it generally isn't passed on from one generation to the next quite simply because the only ones to survive from last year is one adult and one young. And yet when the blue tits breed this spring, they will have 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 youngsters. And the mortality rate for young blue tits wait for it is around 90%. So the average for next year is one adult from the previous year and one young from the previous year. So that's it. 

Matthew Gudgin (32:18):

That's a pretty tough attrition rate, isn't it

Chris Skinner (32:20):

Absolutely. But nevertheless, they are really common birds. They do really, really well. And so that little hole there in your brickwork is incredibly valuable and we should see more of them out in the countryside. Well done.

Matthew Gudgin (32:36):

Julian in Haworth says, thank you for the permissive walks on the farm. Had a great day coming here. Spring song and bird started to show and we saw comma and brimstone butterfly.

Chris Skinner (32:48):

Yes. Well done. And also went bird watching immediately after. And look at the list. Oh

Matthew Gudgin (32:54):

Yes, there's a whole list here of green woodpecker and nut hatch and tree creepers. This particular favourite of mine.

Chris Skinner (33:01):

Oh yes. I'll see if I can get you up close one of these days. 

Matthew Gudgin (33:04):

Red Kite kestrel bull finches gold crest.

Chris Skinner (33:08):

Yes. Yeah, I know. I'm incredibly proud of what's here as I've said all along. And just thank you. And we had a wonderful video and I think SOUNDYARD, Anna and Sophie will put it on their site. There's a fantastic video of the pond that Julian's created with frogs mating in there. And there must be the best part of 20 frogs and it's a cracking video. So well done. And congratulations

Matthew Gudgin (33:36):

Now. Hello, Chris says, Sheila Hall, listening to your podcast, I had to smile at the last item about the unmating dunocks. It reminded me of my late father who grew up in the countryside in Norfolk in the early 20th century and knew a fair bit about nature and wildlife. One day when in his latter years he looked out at the kitchen window and said,

Chris Skinner (33:57):

Well, you've never seen that before, but now I know why we used to call him pick arses. You missed the video. And the question last week, Matthew, it came in late. So I answered the particular question and it was a fabulous video in St Augustines in Norwich in a balcony high up above the city, trees all around. And it showed a house sparrow a dunnock. The backside of it being pecked by the male to check it hadn't mated with another one. That's why I was lost for words because I couldn't find the word to describe what we were seeing, but I called it. So he was just checking. She'd been a good girl.

Matthew Gudgin (34:42):

John in Aldburgh says, oh, this is another one about frogs. I've had a wildlife pond in the garden for many years. Normally lots of frogs this year, none. There's also a large pond on the Aldeburgh village Green. Again, no frogs.

Chris Skinner (34:57):

Yes, it's quite common this year, that disease. It's a kind of bacterial infection called red leg to give it its short name, which frogs suffer from. And it's so distressing when you have a pond and you just find five or six frogs laying there, dead looking a bit bloodied, and it's quite likely to be in that. But bear in mind that we're getting more and more otters out into the Norfolk countryside. In particular, the sort of headquarters of the Otter Trust is a rsum just through over the Suffolk border there. And that was brought to life by Philip Ware, an early otter enthusiast. And so that's always possible. Pike will eat them. Herons eat frogs as well. So they really are a part of the food chain and it's always sad when they disappear.

Matthew Gudgin (35:47):

Now we talk about the emails coming in in their droves, but of course most of the fan mail for this podcast is to your dog Rat who had a starring role last week

Matthew Gudgin (35:57):

Had a starring role last week. Catherine Harris says, I wonder about dogs though running free during bird nesting season. Do you have any concerns?

Chris Skinner (36:06):

Yes, I do. Particularly on nature reserves where it's crucial that because of the numbers of people and people love to walk their dogs, they do need to be on a lead and kept close quarters as well. So here at High Ash Farm, we have the permissive walks and I mow right up to the edges of the hedge on the permissive walks. There's about seven miles of those. And people ask me why I do that because it's really good nesting habitat. But the last thing I want to do is for birds like pheasants or yellow hammers, two birds at both ends of the size scale there, nesting on the edge because they'll get disturbed by dogs even if they're on a short lead. So Rat, my dog is trained really carefully not to interfere with anything nesting. He knows not to do that. So he's a little bit unusual because he's kind of learned what we call field craft, and he's a really good boy. So he accompanies me all day and it is a problem. So particularly if the dogs are off the lead, particularly this time of the year when we've got seals popping out on the Norfolk coastline and they're extremely vulnerable then. So if you are out and you have a dog walking out in the countryside at this time of the year, please keep your dog under close control.

Matthew Gudgin (37:25):

Thank you, Catherine, for that very timely email. Thanks to all our correspondence, we guaranteed to read all of them, not time to feature all of them

Chris Skinner (37:34):

The pile this week was phenomenal.

(37:37)
 A bumper bundle

Chris Skinner (37:38):

Once said, it's so rewarding to know that the podcast is listened to, not just here in Norfolk, but all over the UK and beyond, and it just warms the cockles of your heart. Thank you everybody for responding to the podcast

Matthew Gudgin (37:54):

Email address chris@countrysidepodcast.co.uk. And we're a float next week. 

Chris Skinner (38:03):

We are, yes. We're going to be three men in a boat. You can't wait.