Episode 22: Nighttime Safari

Matthew Gudgin (00:30):

It's another edition of Chris Skinner's Countryside Podcast. And here we are on High Ash Farm just outside Norwich. And it's something a little out of the ordinary this week because Chris, it's eight o'clock in the evening. It's pitch black.

Chris Skinner (00:46):

It is pitch black. Matthew, we're going to do a nocturnal safari. We're going to go round part of the farm and just see what we can see. We might see nothing at all, but we're going to use the truck as a kind of mobile hide if you like, and just see what's out and about because believe it or not, about half our wildlife is nocturnal. It comes out at night and is very secretive during daylight hours. Things like the deer on the farm are very elusive. Lots of the birds as well. So nighttime hunting birds like hawks for instance, are replaced by owls at night. So complete transformation.

Matthew Gudgin (01:29):

I can just make out through the trees there. There are birds swimming on your pond, aren't they?

Chris Skinner (01:36):

They're the two very elderly geese and they take to the water in the evening to keep away from any marauding foxes. There's also quite a lot of mallard on there as well, which are much, much darker plumage, which we haven't got any lights on at the moment. And they spend the night here as well. And it's lovely because there's some other waterfowl coming. Birds like teal will come in quite regularly because I feed near the pond every night. It's a sort of habit I have and just love attracting all the different forms of wildlife to the farm. So without further ado, I'm just going to start the truck out because I'm just going to show you something quite important. Away we go. It's only about 50 yards away and we'll be doing several miles. Tonight we'll be crossing three villages. The main parts of High Ash Farms is in the central village of Caistor St. Edmund and to the south we have Stoke Holy Cross, and we'll do a few fields there. And then on the northern portion of the farm, one called Arminghall. And perhaps we'll finish there. It depends how far we get because there's rain forecast later on. And I'm just going to stop outside the stables here and put the break on.

Matthew Gudgin (02:56):

Not going to wake the horses up are we?

Chris Skinner (02:58):

I think we probably are, they have all had dinner and supper. They get looked after better than I do, so we'll just have a look. I'll show you something.

Matthew Gudgin (03:08):

It's dry at the moment, rain forecast for later. So let's hope we can avoid that rain. But it is nighttime just after eight o'clock in the evening and….

Chris Skinner (03:17):

Monumental oak tree there with a big cable supporting it in case it blows over one day. The bottom's a bit rotten, but it's got a few good roots on. My wallflowers are doing really well as well. Around the bottom, Matthew, look side of this old Norfolk pan tile building. It's got ivy on it. It doesn't look very interesting, does it?

Matthew Gudgin (03:41):

It's Ivy.

Chris Skinner (03:42):

Yes, it's ivy, but it's really important. You can see the berries there. Some of it's coming to fruit, it flowered late autumn. There's lots of bees and butterflies on there. And I just want you to come in, we'll see what we can see. The secret is to get the torch and point it upwards and just have a careful look I think. 

Matthew Gudgin:

Oh, I can see some feathers. 

Chris Skinner:

There you are. There's one well spotted Matthew, that's a house sparrow. It's a male house sparrow as well. And he's there

Matthew Gudgin (04:17):

And he's there roosting for the night?

Chris Skinner (04:18):

Yes. And there's about, I've counted them going in here about five o'clock this evening just as it was dusk. And there's about 22 in here. All well secreted and it's a way of saying sorry to them because I used to have to come round in the evening with my father and have a brauch, which was a hazel cane, and we used to hit the side of the ivy and kill the sparrows because they were a pest in my childhood, a mega pest. And my father took a hatred to them and it's my way of saying sorry for my past, but so there are more than

Matthew Gudgin (04:59):

So there are more than 20 birds in this patch.

Chris Skinner (04:59):

A huge patch. It's about what? It's about three metres across and four to five metres tall. And

Matthew Gudgin (05:08):

They just find a little place in there

Chris Skinner (05:09):

It's stuffed with sparrows in there. Believe me, I just saw them all peeling in. They all go in together, but it just shows where our birds, these are the daytime birds. There's lots here at the farm. Passer domesticus, the house sparrow and there'd be a few tree sparrows about as well, but they're as rare as hens teeth these days. But it's absolutely lovely to see them. And I know that there's one a bit higher up if you come this way just a little bit. There he is. Very secret.

Matthew Gudgin (05:41):

Oh yes, yes! They don't fly off then when you do this?

Chris Skinner (05:42):

No, they don't. I mean it's best that they don't fly off, which is why I don't like. And another one a bit higher up just in there, just at the top of the beam. 

Matthew Gudgin:

He's got prime position up there. 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, right at the top they are vulnerable to rats. Another one look there you can see them. You start to see more and more and more. Absolutely lovely. So I love them to bits and it's my way of saying sorry. And a good secret is when you look on the ground here on the concrete grooming area covered in sparrow droppings, there we are. It's a good start to the evening. What more could a boy want? 

Matthew Gudgin:

And they'll have just gone to bed in the last couple of hours probably, wouldn't they? 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, that's right. Yeah, they'll spend the night there, rain or wind. The way the ivy leaves overlap, gives them complete protection so when it rains hard, they can stay completely dry in there. 

Matthew Gudgin:

We're expecting rain. And actually while we've been recording, the wind has got up significantly. 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, it has but we'll be in the truck. You've got to have the window open, but I notice you're well wrapped up.

Matthew Gudgin:

You can say that again.

(06:59)

Chris Skinner:
 All right, let's head out onto the fields. Off we go. It's just a short drive to the first field and we're lucky because the heavy rains we had a few weeks ago have all soaked in and the ground's dry enough to drive on. Now I only do this once a year. This track is a bit bumpy and as we head  away from the farm.

Matthew Gudgin:

What do we have here, rabbits?

Chris Skinner:

Two rabbits in front. 

Matthew Gudgin:

So rabbits in the headlamps!

Chris Skinner:

That's our first mammals of the evening 

Matthew Gudgin:

Eyes shining brightly. Yes, just about have the sense to get out of the way. 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, they're pretty good. Yes. So anything we see is a bonus. I did expect to see rabbits and we've got teasels in front of us here just leaving the farm behind us and it should be dry enough, but first of all, four wheel drive in should click in and this is a standing crop of over winter, wild bird seed mixed cereals mixed in there and we are just driving out into the field now.

Matthew Gudgin:

These fields have become very familiar to me over the years during the day, but at night, so different 

Chris Skinner:

There, what we got there we are right in front, our first hare.

Matthew Gudgin:

Oo hare!

(08:16)

Chris Skinner:
 I think you can do this by yourself. You're getting excellent at spotting the wildlife. 

Matthew Gudgin:

It's the shape. 

Chris Skinner:

That's lovely. Absolutely beautiful. 

Matthew Gudgin:

And I think you've told me before rabbits by the margins, but hares in the middle. That hare is in the middle of this field. 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, that's right. That's hares out in the middle. What did we have there? No, that's just some stubble sticking up there. Head back into the standing crop now. 

Matthew Gudgin:

How is your hare population? 

Chris Skinner:

It's fantastic. Really, really good. This area of over winter wildbird seed mix where they spend the daylight hours they can hunker down in here and very good cover for them. And already the female hares, the does will be giving birth to the first leverett of the year. So this crop's quite tall as you can see. So what I was hoping for was to see the deer out here. It's quite a large field with sort of zigzagging across it. There's a hare right in front Matthew.

Matthew Gudgin:

With his ears down and now bounding off to the right. Lovely. 

Chris Skinner:

That's as close as you'll ever get to a hare, that one. 

Matthew Gudgin:

They're quite large actually. 

Chris Skinner:

They certainly are. It always surprises people. Buck hares are even larger than the doe and …. woodcock just there, 

Matthew Gudgin:

I saw something flying up. 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, definitely a woodcock. Wow. And this is ideal habitat… There's another one just came out and immediately once this part of the crop's a little bit lower down so we've got a better chance of seeing some deer here. It's what we call brackled over. I have got to be careful one or two springs on this field. Not the ones that the car suspension's on, but water rises up out of the ground. It's quite hilly and there we are, our first deer, two, about 50 yards in front of me. Chinese water deer, big tusks coming out of the top jaw. We might get a bit closer, not trying to drive quickly to scare them. We're doing five miles an hour, so nice and slow. But like all the deer species, they're very adept at legging it and disappearing. We call the roe deer, the resident deer here at the farm. We call them fairies of the woodland. But that was lovely to see those, a pair of them. Hopefully we'll get a better view of them when we visit some of the other fields. I hadn't realised this is so tall it's very nearly shoulder high.

Matthew Gudgin:

Bird flying up there?

Chris Skinner (11:04):

Woodcock. Yes, because of the water table here, the way in parts of the field the water rises up. It's absolutely ideal for the woodcock to feed. They get down in there and their main food is worms at this time of the year. And so it's easy feeding… That is another woodcock gone up! And this is what happens. And cold weather, the woodcock come across from Western Europe and because they're probing birds have got very long beaks. Indeed they're safe. Once they get to the 1st of February, then the shooting season for them finishes. So the ones that are here now, hopefully some will stay and breed. There are breeding species but many, many come in from the near continent and one of the feathers in my cap, if you like, is to stop the shooting of them on the foreshore. I worked in with Suffolk police and alerted them to the fact that woodcock were being shot as they flew in on migration and birds were actually landing in the sea and Suffolk police took over and managed to stop that happening. So really pleased about that. It's now become a red list species funnily enough, although it's still shot. Matthew, the tall plants you can see sticking out of the top of the crop is a special here. It's one I did battle with through.. another woodcock. 

Matthew Gudgin:

Oh great view of one there. Vertical takeoff

Chris Skinner:

Yeah, just that bar and perfect camouflage as well. 

Scolopax rusticola the scientific name. Rust, rusty colour if you like. Just lovely view of one then.

(12:59)
 So the tall plant that we're driving through could hear it going underneath the truck is fat hen and it was a real problem, but now I'm harvesting some seed and sowing it. My father would pull his hair out if he knew what I was doing because he had huge problems with it. He was an early sugar beet grower in the early part of the 1900s. Supplying local sugar beet factory, Cantley, and fat hen was a real problem because it would wrap around the knives of the harvester and stop it working properly. And so it was a bit of a problem. 

Matthew Gudgin:

But fat hen's also a good food source. 

Chris Skinner:

It's a brilliant food source, absolutely fantastic. The little black seeds pheasants absolutely love it. So does many of the small species of birds. This is a fallow plot. It looks exactly like a very large lawn.

(13:54)
 That's three hectares there in front of us. Beautiful. What have we got there is this something else that can be just a stone and something is in front of us out there. Let's have a little look,

Matthew Gudgin:

It’s something with ears. A rabbit?

Chris Skinner:

Is that going to be a rabbit? Possibly. It stands stuck still. So yes, it's a rabbit. It's quite well out in the field and it's grazing on this nutritious young grass. We leave him, he's hunkered down and we'll leave him undisturbed. So get back just in the margin. And there's a Chinese water deer, very close view of one disappeared about 20 yards away. That's a female. And another hare right in front of us going low through the undergrowth. Yes, yes. 

Matthew Gudgin:

It's just enough cover to keep them so we can't get very good view of them. 

Chris Skinner:

But the Chinese water deer was a female.

(14:54)
 She didn't have those tusks coming out of the upper jaw. We've actually got more Chinese water deer per square mile in East Anglia now, particularly in the Broadland region than they have in their native territory, which is China in the river valleys there and in Korea there's another home for them. But so much human pressure on their habitat that we've now got more Chinese water deer per square mile in East Anglia than they have per square mile in China. So there we are, right just onto one of the tracks now and I'm keeping my eye out for owls the whole time. So it's interesting to see if we can see a barn owl. Little owl tawnies are about as well this time and night. This is a wild flower field and it's just been grazed off by the sheep. Lots of sainfoin. A favourite with a deer's lucerne and that's just beginning to grow.

(15:56)
 But nothing on here. I'm not really surprised because just two weeks ago there was an electric fence around there to keep sheep in and if any hares walk up to the fence or the deer, they get quite a shock. So they tend to avoid the fields that the sheep have grazed on because they've learned pretty quickly that's not very pleasant having a few thousand volts on very damp nose, so they tend to avoid this area. Good. Right now we're now heading out to this part of Caistor and in a moment or two we're going to cross the stream here, which takes us into the next village, Stoke Holy Cross large area of woodland in front of us there and cross the stream.

Matthew Gudgin (16:47):

You can see why in centuries past as we approached the woodland here, it was a source of stories and folktales, wasn't it? Mystery and superstition.

Chris Skinner (16:58):

Absolutely. And my children name that little bit of woodland. It is a lot of conifers in it. They found it very spooky today. If I mention this portion of the farm, all three children know exactly where it is. It's called The Dark Corner so that's really appropriate for it. So we are now onto a hayfield. We're in Stoke Holy Cross, the parish of Stoke and we're just looking at the first bit. Here we are. Two hares right in front of us.

Matthew Gudgin (17:38):

Some ears Would that be male and female do you think?

Chris Skinner (17:39):

There’s a high chance. Very difficult to tell the sexes. They do look very alike, particularly at night. They're only what, 20 yards in front of us. Not at all perturbed by us and they're out again grazing on this nutritious grass. They're just lolloping along in front of something else. Caught my eye. Another hare. So we've got three and look in front Matthew on that oak tree in the ivy. I do believe. I think. Fingers crossed.

Matthew Gudgin (18:12):

It's the right shape, owl?

Chris Skinner (18:13):

It's the right shape.

Matthew Gudgin (18:14):

It's glowing white, 15 feet up.

Chris Skinner (18:18):

Wait, just going.

Matthew Gudgin (18:19):

Got a perching post on that tree.

Chris Skinner (18:21):

Wow. I did not expect, I hoped we might see you one. Let's have a look. Oh, it's magnificent. Focus the binoculars and there is a male barn owl. Now can I pass the glasses to you? Yeah, look at that. It's 30 yards away from us. Absolutely beautiful. 

Matthew Gudgin (18:42):

You can see the disc?

Chris Skinner (18:43):

Yes, the facial disc.

Matthew Gudgin (18:44):

It's a nice dry night currently, isn't it? So that's perfect for it

Chris Skinner (18:47):

It's downwind. It's a pure accident. I mean you can't plan seeing this, but to see one within 15 minutes of us starting our nighttime safari, I've crept up a little bit closer. There we are. That's 20 yards now.

Matthew Gudgin (19:05):

Barn owl. Oh, how exciting.

Chris Skinner (19:07):

That is more than exciting. That's a red letter day. That's fabulous. I think just put this on, see if we can gently focus that torch on it. There you are is looking at us there. Facial disc, hooked beak. 

Matthew Gudgin (19:26):

I can see the eyes now.

Chris Skinner (19:27):

You can see the eyes. They will reflect. If it looks straight at us it can reflect the light of this little spotlight I put on it and it's been very obliging so I'll turn this light back off. That is the best view of a barn owl out in the countryside that you could possibly ask for. All these margins are tusky grass, so there's a very high, this trouble with nature and falling in love with nature. I love all the harvest mice. The field voles the long tail field mice, hare and that's supper, breakfast and dinner for that barn owl and I've got two boxes up this avenue of oak trees. So well done Stoke Holy Cross. You're going to have to have a little round of applause. That is an incredible sight.

Matthew Gudgin (20:18):

Four hairs, those deer and the barn owl all within a few yards.

Chris Skinner (20:22):

Yes. All within what, 10, 15 minutes. I'm going to leave that one in peace. Oh good, it's not a stuffed one. I promise you

Matthew Gudgin (20:30):

He put it out there earlier. Yes, his friend the taxidermist. 

Chris Skinner (20:34):

No. Goodness,

Matthew Gudgin (20:36):

No he was moving. I can testify to that

Chris Skinner (20:38):

Yes. Oh, you're so spoiled. That is absolutely beautiful.

Matthew Gudgin (20:42):

We're on a nighttime safari with Chris Skinner on High Ash Farm. It's about half past eight in the evening and we're… there's a bird going up…

Chris Skinner (20:51):

Sky… yes, Skylark

Matthew Gudgin (20:52):

We're ranging across Chris's fields here on High Ash Farm and seeing what's up and about when we're in front of the telly of an evening.

Matthew Gudgin:

We are back on another field Chris and two deer are just nonchalantly wandering up the hedge row

Chris Skinner (21:19):

And one's given the game away to tell you what species are, it's got a tail and the tail is gone vertical and it's snow white and they're a pair of muntjac, another one of the introduced species. We only have two proper native species in the UK and that's the red deer and the roe deer, the fallow deer, a lots of people think is a native species and it became extinct and then it was reintroduced, we think firstly by the Normans and then there was a later introduction as well. And the deer closest to us only about 20 yards in front of us now is a male muntjac and he's got those two little antlers. The Chinese water deer we saw earlier is unique among the deer in this country anyway and it doesn't have any antlers whatsoever, just the two tusks on the males which they use for fighting. There you are, look at that. 20 yards, a pair of muntjac there. They don't

Matthew Gudgin (22:24):

They don't really look perturbed I wonder what they think we are?

Chris Skinner (22:27):

I don't know. No, just a pair of bright eyes behind them and the winds in front of us so they're not sensing us. We just swing around on this field because we're up top of a hill. What we got down there, several. There's one head

Matthew Gudgin (22:43):

Eyes, red eyes

Chris Skinner (22:44):

Looking at us red eyes. It's like me after a long night out. Look at that beautiful. Absolutely stunning and nice pair of heads. One very inconveniently two going one way, one the other, another two.

Matthew Gudgin (23:00):

Yes, this field is full of hares. There must be half a dozen at least.

Chris Skinner (23:04):

Yes, more hare than there is on the top of my head after farming all these years. Look at that. Wonderful. And another 2, 3, 4 in front of us. 1, 2, 3 and one there.

Matthew Gudgin (23:20):

One's down and it's its form?

Chris Skinner (23:23):

On its haunch. No it's not in a form. They're all out feeding. Remember here's a pretty much nocturnal, you will see them in March and April and at this time of the year they will gain together like this. It's probably three males and a female and she's separated herself from them, which gives a clue away. There you are. Look at that, A group of hares. They're probably all jack or male hares and they're running away and she's been given a bit of peace and quiet as if she's coming into season. She may have, well it'll be mayhem. Let's put it like that.

Matthew Gudgin (23:58):

There she is again.

Chris Skinner (23:59):

There she is again. Yes, you

Matthew Gudgin (24:00):

Yes, you can tell she's the female. She's a bit smaller than the others

Chris Skinner (24:02):

Yes she is. Yep. Just walking away, nobody's being frightened. You can see she's stopped and she's grazing now a sign of being relaxed, but just giving her some relief of those suitors, we'll call them. They're not always very gentle because if she's not ready to mate and mating happens from now onwards in particular with the milder weather and all this fresh green grass for nutritious food for them, she'll be giving birth in six, eight weeks time to 2, 3, 4 leveretts in a form and then she'll distribute those and feed them just after dusk each night. So she only often get one feed a day. The milk that they produce is very, very nutritious. I love them here in the field. And the top of the headlights over in a distance there still in Stoke Holy Cross. It's called Harry’s field. And what I didn't know is part of the scientific name of the hare or harrier is like you had the Harrier jump jet and the aeroplane that took off vertically and hares, when they leave their form they jump lepus europaeus. So they jump vertically out of the form. And so when you hunted hares, you had harriers to hunt them. And hunting hares now with dogs is now illegal in this country. So this is wild bird seed mix yet again. It's not so tall as the last crop we drove through and we're just heading a diagonally across the field. This is quite heavy clay and beautiful driving conditions. I've got quite wide tyres on the vehicle so we're not sinking in at all and we're not making any marks at all.

Matthew Gudgin (25:52):

You've got me to push as well, haven't you?

Chris Skinner (25:54):

I've got, sorry?

Matthew Gudgin (25:55):

You've got me to push?

Chris Skinner (25:56):

Yes, I have Daniel on call. We've got the mobile with us tonight. Mobile phone, it's turned off but I have been known in the past to call on my son's services to pull me out of getting stuck, but I said to only do this once a year. So it's as much a treat for me for all our podcast listeners and as it is for you as well. But I'm going to have a job to top trump that owl.  We are now onto another field, a big grass margin on our right hand side and travelling along the tracks around the edge for the horses to ride on. And then we can now swing round into this tall grass margin and head out onto this field. This is 25 acres, that's 10 hectares. And again it's so there we are. What have we got?

Matthew Gudgin (26:54):

 I see some ears and a tail

Chris Skinner (26:55):

Yes. Have we got a white bottom on that one? No, it's another Chinese water deer then that's running away from us. It's about 30 yards in front. 

Matthew Gudgin (27:09):

You mentioned the native species. Would you hope to see those deer on an occasion like this?

Chris Skinner (27:14):

Yes, they're become much more common and it's stopped and it's turned around and looking at us, it's got that black nose, very attractive, large black eyes and distinguishing feature of them, these huge teddy bear ears up on high up on the head. So they look very attractive, although they're actually surprisingly small, they're not really any larger than a Labrador dog to give you an idea on slightly longer legs. But they're very elegant and when they run away from you like that one was just doing every third or fourth stride, they kind of kick their back legs up in the air higher than their back. It is really quite odd to watch how they run, but they can get up quite a speed. They can do 25, 30 miles an hour without any trouble at all if they have to get away. Predators main predator would be man, dogs with the fawns if they give birth out of cover. But this is their favourite habitat. They like lots of cover reed beds as well around the broadland area. It's one of their favourite places as well.

Matthew Gudgin (28:28):

You'll find them in suburban settings as well, won't you? 

Chris Skinner (28:32):

Yes that's more the muntjac than the Chinese water day. Chinese water dare are more sort of, I won't say solitary, but they tend to keep themselves to themselves. Muntjac will come into urban areas, daffodil bulbs, snow drops, and particularly crocuses. They'll use their little hooves and dig crocus bulbs up much the annoyance of gardeners. And the other favourite food that muntjac like as well are roses. We have another Chinese water deer in front. Another female..

Matthew Gudgin (29:07):

teddy bear ears.

Chris Skinner (29:08):

Yes, sticking up just lolloping along. An impression is it's a much larger animal, isn't it, than what I'm describing. But it'd only be about 10, 11, 12 kilos in weight. So not too heavy, but pair of very shiny eyes down at the bottom here. Silver green eyes green eyes. Were heading straight towards it and heading up the wind again, which is to our advantage,

Matthew Gudgin (29:37):

Looking straight at us

Chris Skinner (29:38):

It is looking straight at us. What we got closing in 60 yards, pair of large ears. I can see 50 yards

Matthew Gudgin (29:49):

Chinese water, deer again. Should it be

Chris Skinner (29:52):

Roe deer, road deer, white bottom.

Matthew Gudgin (29:55):

Aha. Native species. Yes.

Chris Skinner (29:58):

Yeah, definitely

Matthew Gudgin (29:59):

Bounding off that way

Chris Skinner (30:00):

Yes, bounding off close to one of the smaller areas of woodland and known as Notre Dame Wood planted by the children of Notre Dame school. And there's some tussocky grass just on the edge of the woodland here and that's made it into the woodland. So fairies of the wood I call them, they have this art of disappearing but very distinctive white bottom with the raised hairs on the bottom. And fortunately we talked about roe deer, last podcast, last Sunday's podcast. And I put the camera exactly where we were standing by an old ash stump and I have got a beautiful roe buck within a few hours of where we were standing with a doe as well a doe, the female roe deer. And I got them in just a bit of sunshine and it's a glorious video. You'll be able to see that on High Ash Farm Facebook later on and we'll get that posted up Friday or Saturday just before the Sunday podcast goes out. Here we are what we've got now. Birds bird flying, another deer in front of us. Let's hope we can keep the whatever it was, it's hovering. This is unusual. What on earth happening here? 

Matthew Gudgin (31:26):

I can see the wings.

Chris Skinner (31:27):

The wings are beating. It's never going to be a kestrel? Must be another

Matthew Gudgin (31:32):

It’s white! Must be another barn owl?

Chris Skinner (31:33):

Now 50 yards away. It's hovering. That is so when it's going to the way it's flying, it's in full headlights. It has to be. It's got to be a kestrel. I've never seen an owl hovering like that, but it's pitch dark. It's hovering again. Matthew, that is so unusual.

Matthew Gudgin (31:57):

It's not far off the ground is it?

Chris Skinner (31:58):

No, its coming. It's hunting. 

Matthew Gudgin (32:01):

It must be a kestrel. 

Chris Skinner (32:02):

It's hovering. It's completely still. There's a strong wind. The wind is now behind us. So the bird is facing us. And what on earth is it? Well it is curled away and it's just flown away from us. It's about gone to a hundred yards in front of us. It's pale underneath, but again, it's hovering. It just has to be a kestrel at night. And I don't think I've ever seen that before. 

Matthew Gudgin:

And there's not that much light is there for it to unfold?

Chris Skinner:

No, but it is got an owl like appearance to it. Let's put my big spotlight on and give the game away. Fish hooks, you know what that is? It's a barn owl look,

Matthew Gudgin (32:51):

A barn owl

Chris Skinner (32:52):

Hovering a hovering barn owl, completely still! 

Matthew Gudgin (32:55):

That’s behaviour very rarely seen,

Chris Skinner (32:56):

I don't think I have ever seen that before. It was hovering in one spot. They will do that and then they fold their wings up vertically and drop down into the crop. But it was a strong wind and it was flying into the wind and it was just holding one spot. But because we were head onto it, I couldn't see the white plumage underneath there is, it's doing the same thing on the top of the field, two barn owls in one night. I mean that's just unbelievable. It still, it's absolutely completely still look at that rapid wing movements in one spot still and it's still hovering

Matthew Gudgin (33:37):

Using the wind to stand up into it I suppose

Chris Skinner (33:39):

Yes. Yeah, look at that. And it's three feet above the crop in full headlights.

Matthew Gudgin (33:45):

The only thing we haven't seen so far is him diving to get his prey

Chris Skinner (33:48):

I know, yes, because it vision and it's using the sound as well of any small mammals moving in the crop. And this crop is absolutely stuffed with small mammals. So it's easy hunting on here. So there it is. And it's now hovering again and it's gone down. Yes, it's gone down, then it's got something. Wow. What about that? Yeah, that's just extraordinary. Yeah, just extraordinary. We'll leave that in peace. It's flying down the margin using the wind to its advantage, but something and it's still doing the same again. It's got a small mammal in one talon and it's still hunting but nothing surprising. They've got barn owl boxes all around these fields and the female can actually be incubating already. They early nesters, the young in the nest for a long, long time. And there we are. Wow. Right. We're going to travel across the farm now we're going to go on the road and we're going to the next village on the north edge of the farm, which is Arminghall. But I think we're going to have a job to top trump Stoke Holy Cross. I think it's going to hold the Golden Safari Awards for tonight.

Matthew Gudgin (35:18):

This is Arminghall and we're just in a woodcock, Chris

Chris Skinner (35:21):

Yes. Short grazed grass. The sheep have left this bit. It's a field for hay for 2024. So we remove all the last autumn's growth by grazing it off North Country Cheviots here and the flock is right beside us. And just as we drove onto the field in Arminghall, woodcock got up very, very close and you could see that lovely barred plumage and the long beak. And when they fly unusual, they fly with a beak facing downwards and unusual beak. It's about four inches long Matthew, beautiful, beautiful birds. And the tip of the beak has got some special sinews running down the top of the beak inside the beak and the bird can open up the tip of the beak so it probes down into the mud, senses a worm, and then the tip of the beak actually opens up like a pair of tweezers and grabs the worm.

(36:26)
 The woodcock doesn't end up with a beak full of wet mud. It then pulls the worm out and then eats it once it's out of its little burrow and that's its favourite food. They will eat other small soil invertebrates as well. So that was absolutely beautiful to see that, again, strictly really nocturnal. You do see them out in daytime. If you're walking through sort of damp woodland in particular, you will sort of flush them out. And they're one of these birds like snipe that we also have here out on the grassland on the farm. They don't really get up until they're right under your feet and they kind of rely mainly on camouflage and beautiful birds though. And one of our old measurements in British sort of chains, rods, poles, perches and it's the rod with a certain measurement in terms of yards and woodcock when they do their courtship flight fly around their territory often in a circle around a piece of woodland.

(37:36)
 And the wing beat is so slow, it looks as though the woodcock's measuring out its territory and it's called a roading flight, which is an old imperial measurement of distance. So beautiful birds. And it also croaks rather like a frog as it's flying round, surveying its territory. Right this is really heavy soil now. So I'm just keeping my fingers crossed because at the top of this field it's quite waterlogged and I'm just zigzagging about if I keep us moving we're less likely to disappear. This is ideal territory for hares. This one hasn't been grazed yet. It's over winter grass and wildflower field here. Lots of sainfoin and clover because the pH is very, very high indeed. Horses wearing a distance. What have we got? 

Matthew Gudgin:

Was that a hare? 

Chris Skinner

Probably a hare, let’s have a little look. 

Matthew Gudgin:

Right in the middle of the field. Long ears

(38:40)

Chris Skinner:
 Yeah. A typical of hares. As I said many times before, hares often use a hill and run up a hill. They're long hind legs, gives 'em advantage of being able to run up hill and they generally run out into the open, whereas rabbits will do the opposite. They'll run to cover and often near hedgerows or woodland. So that was really nice. And we got here some deer. It's looking at, it's got its head held way up. Is it going to be? I can't see the tail. It's a muntjac got its tail down at the moment and it's turned and it's running away from it's very close, female muntjac doesn't know quite which way to turn.

(39:30)

Matthew Gudgin:
 Let her go off into the darkness. 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, Duke of Bedford introduced them. And we've got another congregation of hares three. I can see three in front of us over there going away in the distance. 

Matthew Gudgin:

I think I saw a fourth pair of eyes as well there. 

Chris Skinner:

Yeah, very nice. And the last feel just coming up through this gap, there she is, female muntjac, really confused. Oh she's got her tail up. Just then flash the underside of the tail, which a lot of deer species do. They've got white bottoms with a roe deer or a tail, which they can like a rabbit scut we call it. And they can show the others where to run by displaying that tail when it's pitch dark.

(40:22)
 So there we are finishing off on top of a hill. Two more hares in front of us. I sort of estimate the population of hares on a farm between 50 and 60. 

Matthew Gudgin:

Really? That many? 

Chris Skinner:

Yes. And the old rule of thumb with hares is six to seven hares eat about as much as one sheep but with about a square mile of countryside like this, there's much more than enough habitat. They are very close look just bounding away effortlessly sort of. And another one in the distance a no, that's a fox. 

Matthew Gudgin:

I just caught it going there into the woodland. 

Chris Skinner:

It's going through the hedge. It's quick as lightning quicker than we were. Oh, I would've loved to. 

Matthew Gudgin:

Oh I can see the eyes reflecting back. 

Chris Skinner:

Yes, they're just reflecting back the other side of the hedge. Definitely a fox. Well we were out foxed by that one, but only just absolutely lovely. There you are Matthew. We've got some questions to answer so we're going to have to go back to the farm office now, so I hope you don't want overtime. And they're the horses with their reflective jackets on over in the distance there. 

Matthew Gudgin:

Well, a terrific evening that really was enjoyable. 

Chris Skinner:

So I said it's a once a year treat for me and I can see the first spots of rain just coming on the windscreen at the truck now. So we're both spoiled. Nice little pond at the bottom here. Lots of water in brimming full with water. 

Matthew Gudgin (42:03):

Yes it is. It doesn't seem long ago we were talking about how these were empty.

Chris Skinner (42:06):

Yes. And the seasons change and continue to change there we are back on the track a bit bumpy and rabbit running across in front of us and just as we got into Arminghall, we must have seen what 20 rabbits, 25 rabbits just running across into the woodland in front of us, all those mammals. That's what we are after all. So that's why I like sharing the countryside and the little patch of Norfolk that I can control with all the other creatures that like to call it their home as well.

Matthew Gudgin (42:55):

We're inside now in Chris's office here, the farm office where Daniel and Chris run the whole operation and it's lovely and light and modern here. There are even some computers. Are you learning how to use these things?

Chris Skinner (43:08):

No have you seen my fingers? I think sausages are the best description. I hardly ever come into the office. Matthew. I'm a very outside boy and either in the tractors or chainsawing at this time of the year because of all the fallen trees. So I'm very much still a hands-on farmer. But this is an equally important part of the business where the deals are done and all the organisation, the amount of paperwork Matthew that comes into a modern farm office, health and safety and all the rules and regulations that you have to comply with as well as stewardship as well. It is endless. And so I don't envy Daniel, he seems to spend a great deal of his time in there. I was cuffuffling and muttering about it to start with, but once I started to learn how farming has changed in the last 25 years, all my father's bills used to be on the mantle piece behind the Toby Jug and that's how it was run back then. It's completely different now, believe me.

Matthew Gudgin (44:14):

Well, we're in the office sitting around the boardroom table and here are some of your emails that have arrived. Terry and Ros, hello to you in North Wales. We're always fascinated every year as to whether the particular year is ahead or behind the norm. Could you please comment on this year?

Chris Skinner (44:32):

Yes, we are pretty much where we should be. The snow drops are now out, we're just into February now and it's about as it should be, but what is changing is the variability of the weather. It's just become more and more extreme as each season goes past. We've had some horrendous gales recently. One in northern Scotland I think up in the Pharaoh Isles just yesterday, the highest probably land speed record that's ever been recorded. It was 153 miles an hour from one of the storms Ingunn I think was the storm. And that's horrendous. And I mean that's past hurricane force really. And so what we are noticing here at the farm is the variation in the weather, long dry spells and then long wet spells as well. And that seems to becoming the norm and that's what concerns me.

Matthew Gudgin (45:32):

Mark Tucker is listening in Sussex. Hello Mark. And he's got a question about pied wagtails. Large roosts in the corner of the garden is large pond, which is quite overgrown with bull rushes. Every evening at dusk, a large collection of pied wag tails congregate on the overhead wires and fencing near the ponds. They're making quite a lot of noise and using binoculars, I've managed to count more than 140 pied wag tails. So my question is how common are these large roosting sites and how far away do the wagtails come from to join this congregational site?

Chris Skinner (46:10):

They're really quite common, more common than you might expect when you see pied wagtails, you'll often see them on areas of close mown grass, usually quite near water, but one of their favourites is damp grassland and they'll feed there and then they have this habit of congregating and particularly now moving into urban areas. I used to go into the centre of Norwich and stand outside Marks and Spencer's, one of the stall in there and there's a ledge around the top of the store and there was over a thousand pied wagtails there. And then the roosters moved to Norwich market, Norwich fruit market for a year or two in the trees and the daylight, the sort of nightlights there. And of course they don't get predation because very few owls in the centre of Norwich and the roosters then moved to Tesco's just at Harford Bridges right outside the petrol station there.

(47:07)
 And again, out in the countryside, one of their favourite places is in reed beds, but they will congregate from quite a distance. It's always deceptive because some of our pied wagtails aren't English ones. They will come across the North Sea, they will come from Scotland and move south. Some of our resident wagtails will move across the channel, go down as far as Spain as well. So they move about quite a lot. But generally the resident pied wagtails stay where they are within a mile or two of where they're born. They don't move too far unless you get these really cold weather movements and generally they'll come within from about five miles distance. So that's about the maximum.

Matthew Gudgin (47:54):

Jane Nicholson has written to say that she doesn't remember ever seeing a pied wagtail in the garden

Chris Skinner (48:00):

Right? Yes, very unusual. They will go in gardens, as I said, they like lawns, but you see them more and more in kind of industrial settings as an old sewage farms before they started to use the modern means of filtering human sewage. There'd be lots of insects and bugs there. Remember pied wagtails are insectivorous birds and they really take their chance by staying in our country. A lot of the insect birds like swallow Swifts house, Martins will migrate away because there's not sufficient supply for them. But wagtails have learned if you're near water and there's long weather, there's not too too cold. There's usually an adequate supply of insects. And I love the way they saw their tail flicks constantly. The male has a little black chin and when you get two or three males together courting a female, he puts his head to the sky and it's called a black gorge on his chin. And that's what really attracts the ladies. I haven't tried it but so believe me, for the wag tails it works and their tails constantly wag, hence wag tail. And I just love the way they hunt for insects. They'll scurry along the ground and if the insects take to the air it does a little pirouette up in the air and lands back on the ground that snaps the insect.

Matthew Gudgin (49:22):

Quick identification for Jane. In fact, she says I noticed a small herd of deer around eight or so, three of which were white and the rest very dark, brown to black. What would they be?

Chris Skinner (49:34):

Almost certainly fallow deer. The black ones were introduced. They were a gift and a king of Norway to King James the first way back. And so they're jet black and occasionally you have white ones as well. And we've had a white fallow deer at the farm here as well. Really beautiful. But you do get quite a colour variation in various other deer species as well.

Matthew Gudgin (50:00):

Let's say hello to Rhiannon Owens. Thank you for your email. Oh Rhiannon's going to be distributing some posters about your podcast.

Chris Skinner (50:10):

Excellent, that's what I like to hear. The more the merrier.

Matthew Gudgin (50:14):

Sara. Sara Long, my partner bought me a bird house with internal camera last year for my birthday. Apart from an initial visit, we had no visits. In December, we put some dog fur in the bottom hoping it may encourage something. On the recent cold nights we had a tit visiting cozied down for the night. Then the next night, another overnight. I believe it's the same one each night as have taken pictures to see its markings. Do you think they'll nest here and lay their eggs? Can we tell whether they're male or female and will it be the female that sits on the eggs?

Chris Skinner (50:47):

Interesting. A whole series of questions there. Well firstly, it's not impossible to tell the sex as of blue tits apart. You can with great tits. The black line down the lemon breast is quite wide on the male great tit and then very narrow on the female with blue tits. It doesn't work like that. So they both look identical. The female will choose a nest site. She will build the nest. The male's job, apart from fertilising the eggs is to fodder her when she's incubating. So she puts on a huge amount of weight, about 50% extra in the course of a few weeks before she starts laying. And then literally with the tit species, many of them they put all their eggs in one basket and have one huge brood. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 eggs is not uncommon. And she does all the incubating. While she's doing that, she pulls off the feathers off a patch of her breast to get really good close skin to egg contact to help incubate the eggs and keep them warm. And so she's got a little bare patch there when she's incubating and she does all the work. But the male's job then becomes really, really important. They act as a pair as one almost, if you like that he's completely responsible for feeding her while she's incubating the eggs. She can't really leave the nest other for toilet duties.

Matthew Gudgin (52:17):

I had a note from Fergus Anderson. Nice to know that you are listening in Fergus. And the same goes from Trevor Lee who listens in Kent and wants the rural riddle to return. That was your mystery sound, wasn't it? 

Chris Skinner (52:31):

Yes, it used to be from years ago. Yes, he loved doing that. There's always hope in the future.

Matthew Gudgin (52:36):

Richard Everett has been poorly and I hope you get better soon, Richard, but he says Chris's calming tones have helped me cope and become a more patient, patient. You should be on the NHS!

Chris Skinner (52:48):

Get well soon.

Matthew Gudgin (52:50):

And a photograph of what looks like a dog's bone here. This is from Bill, not sure whether you have access to Instagram. So here's the comment on the photo of a skull. Well there's a skull there as well. Is there? Who knows more than I about the death rituals of badgers.

Chris Skinner (53:06):

Yes, Bill lives in a large agricultural area and he's come across a few dead badgers and he's wondering how they died and why the bones are stripped bare. Well in nature everything's kind of recycled. So when a badger dies, if it's not died down in the set, then birds like buzzards will come and strip all the fur off and then anything edible. So it sounds a bit unsightly any carrion eaters, but will do the same as well. Carrion crows. Obviously Ravens is another one and they will all make use of that. So nature's never wasted. So it's impossible to say why the badgers died. Sometimes you have road casualties, they get hit on a road and manage to scramble away sometimes sadly they get poisoned, sometimes they get shot sometimes of course they just die of old age. They can live quite a while, 10, 12, 15 years as long as that if they can manage to get through that length of time. So there's no telling. So some of the questions I have, you can only guess at and put possible answers, but thank you very, everybody who sent in a whole array of questions, we'll try and get through some more of them next week. They're landing here in the office faster than we can answer than Matthew, but it's lovely to have all the kind response as well.

Matthew Gudgin (54:29):

Yes. And we have only been going less than six months now, so it's good that you're on board with this and we're enjoying it. I know, speaking for myself, I'm enjoying this very much, especially this unusual visit that we've had today after dark

Chris Skinner (54:42):

After dark and one of the emails said, Chris, you're my favourite human being. What a lovely way to finish the podcast. Big smile.

Matthew Gudgin (54:53):

Email Chris@countrysidepodcast.co.uk and Chris will have the undoubted pleasure of seeing me in broad daylight this time next week.

Chris Skinner (55:03):

Yes, looking forward to it.

Announcer (55:20):

This is a SOUNDYARD Production music is by Tom Harris,

Chris Skinner (55:38):

Rat! My terrible terrier always has to have the last word. Matthew's just gone home and I've just noticed one question we didn't answer because it was a video that was sent in perhaps just jumped on the office table. I managed to get him out of the house so he had to be incarcerated while we went on our nighttime safari. And there's a little email on the table here which we accidentally left. It's from Don Grunbaum from East Harling. And we really enjoy the podcast, although we really miss the live broadcast too. I thought you might interested in the attached email. I interrupted a hawk and until I viewed the footage on our drive camera, I didn't know what had happened. There was just a huge pile of pigeon feathers. So I presume it's some sort of hawk and I hope you can identify what the video shows.

(56:44)
 And I've just watched the video and you're quite right. We started tonight's podcast off with sparrows here at the farm and it's a sparrow hawk. In nature something always is there to eat something else, whether it's a plant, an animal, or an insect, and everything gets eaten or is eaten itself. And it's a male sparrow hawk and it attacked the wood pigeon, which is pretty much bigger than what it is. The female sparrow hawks quite a lot larger than the male and it mantled the pigeon and it was starting to pluck the feathers out, which is why you had the feathers all over your drive. And it is not much fun for the pigeon because it took quite a time to kill it. And what happens is the talons pierce some sort of vital organ on the pigeon and eventually the poor pigeon expired and the sparrow hawk ate its filled and then flew off.

(57:47)
 But you can see the lovely plumage on the male sparrow hawk, it's quite dark plumage. And this will amuse the ladies because sparrow hawks have been filmed many times on their nests and just occasionally, but not really very rarely a female sparrow hawk will bring a male sparrow hawk back to feed her children along because the female spare hawk's much larger than the male. And once he's finished his duties, then he's likely to be breakfast for next year's offspring. So there we are. There we are. Thank you for all your emails. And I think it's bedtime now, or at least supper time. There's some rumbling going on here, which is my tummy. So see you soon.