Episode 15: A Season Full Of Promise

Matthew Gudgin (00:34):

We're on High Ash Farm at Caistor St Edmund, a small village very close to the city of Norwich in the county of Norfolk, and Chris Skinner is our host, as always for our countryside podcast- and looking forward, very much to speaking to Chris for another weekly episode. And he's brought me into the woods here, which is a very wintry scene now, really, isn't it? 

Chris Skinner (00:57):

Yes, Matthew. Welcome to High Ash Farm. And this is a delightful area of woodland. It's very hilly. Some mature trees up all around us, sweet chestnuts, towering up to the skies, Scot's pine, oak trees over there still with just a few leaves on. And I would suggest we are properly in winter now because this has opened up and it's quite daylight in here, despite getting very close to the shortest day, which is December the 22nd this year. And so the light as you go into winter increases in the woodland. 
(01:37)
It's very strange because of that huge pelt of leaves that are above us are now beneath our feet. And I suppose you could say it's a little bit depressing at this time of the year. The main colour, if you look round there, there is patches, there are patches of green, a few bits of fern and bracken still showing some green. But overall it's sort of dull brown. And I can understand why some people have this syndrome. I think it's called SAD syndrome, which is seasonally affected disorder.

Matthew Gudgin (02:09):

It's a cloudy day today. It's cold. It's about four degrees, isn't it? Yes. But the birds are making sound. 

Chris Skinner (02:15):

No, they are. It's getting towards a busy time of the year for the bird life across the farm. And it's always very interesting. So I thought I'd cheer us up a little bit. I try and live in the present as best I can, but the history of the farm always takes me back a bit. 
(02:36)
And I'm always looking forwards at the same time because when you are looking after nature, it's nice to see what's going to happen, what's coming into pipeline if you like. So you're looking at me in a strange way because there's nothing to see really. But if you know where to look and what to look for, really it just lifts the spirits and gladdens the heart. Look, we don't need to move. I just brought you to any spot of the woodland and deep layer of leaves here. I'm just going to move them. Look, I hardly need to do anything. 

Matthew Gudgin (03:12):

Oh, there's lots of shoots coming through. 

Chris Skinner (03:13):

Look at this. Look at this. 

Matthew Gudgin (03:15):

Green shoots of recovery. 

Chris Skinner (03:17):

Look at that all around where we are. Just scraping.

Matthew Gudgin (03:21):

Wherever you scrape, there are dozens of these green shoots about an inch off the ground.

Chris Skinner (03:25):

Yes. And look in the centre of that one. Oh, that one's flowering. A tiny patch of white. And these are snow drops. Look at that. Isn't that amazing. I'll just go over here as well just to prove I haven't brought you to any spot. Look at that. Hundreds, in fact, thousands of snow drops 

Matthew Gudgin (03:47):

And when we get into the new year, they'll be eagerly anticipated when they come out into their full glory.

Chris Skinner (03:52):

Yes, the buds have already swollen and there's little white tips on them and the flowers, they sort of gingerly hang downwards and they have little drops of nectar just on the tips of the petals, which any bees flying around at this time year. And you do have pollinating insects at this time of the year close to the shorterst day. So they'll be eagerly sought out by various insects. But it's amazing. So that's one of the questions I often get. How come snowdrops can come into flower and you have to wait in the garden for many of the annuals or biennials to flower in sort of mid-summer time. And the answer is I'd like to look at the bulbs or the corns of some species as kind of batteries. And what they did last spring and summer in 2023 early on in the year is to store the energy from the sunlight in their leaves. That's then translocated down into the root structure, all these little bulbs which we can't see because they're quite deep down in the soil and they then have the energy, then the leaf litter comes over and helps cover them up. And so there is some warmth. The soil is kind of insulated 

Matthew Gudgin (05:11):

So it's like a duvet over the top. 

Chris Skinner (05:13):

Yes, yes. And they'll come up through that. So as we get the wet weather, it compacts the leaves down quite close to the surface and the snow drops are then able to come up through. So really, really lovely and it's kind of heartwarming. So I said it kind of gladdens the heart and the whole of this woodland is behaving in the same way. And there's a succession of bulbs. There's some wild daffodils here, which I absolutely love. Also, it's a really famous area of woodland for the blue bells. And we open it up once a year for the public to enjoy the site of millions. And there aren't millions blue bells at High Ash Farm. 

Matthew Gudgin (05:58):

We have to wait till spring for that later. 

Chris Skinner (06:00):

You do, it's the last week of April, early May. It varies a little bit, but it's generally about that time. 
(06:07)
Very, very reliable as are these snow drops. So these have the big displays of snow drops have been here since certainly I was a child. I remember my mum bringing me down here in a push chair and we'd walk through and she'd get very excited at one of the early flowers that was also in this woodland called aconites. And apparently she told me many years ago, it's the first word I learned to say, in fact it was aka.

Matthew Gudgin (06:34):

Aka, aka. 

Chris Skinner (06:36):

Yes. So that's that little spot. I'll just cover them back up and they're about to burst through, there we are, absolutely beautiful. We walk on just a little bit more. We'll just see it can be anywhere really. We'll just do a few paces. And as a trace of last year's Bluebell display, all the leaves and the stems that held the bluebells up have all died down. 
(07:06)
And all that is left a little sort of bleached stems. You can actually see them. And that one's about a foot, about 30 centimetres tall. And it's pure white and it's very, very wet, but it's still there. The leaves have all gone. And I can actually see where that one, the base of that stem went right down into the soil. So all these white stems here. Well, once the blue bells from last April and early May, and they'll eventually just rot down. They rot down together with the leaves. Remember, so much material comes onto the woodland floor. We just often think of leaves. But when you look round, whole selection of small sticks, when you get the gales, the autumn gales and the winter Gales brings all sorts of debris down, occasional fallen trees, a large branch beside us and a tree down on the side of the hill there. 
(08:01)
And it all rots back down and gives the soil the energy that all these plants need. So we're on lovely leaf litter here. And that is the sort of foundation for many of our woodland plants. Some of them are quite rare. We have early purple orchids here. So another hands and knees job for me. And I'm just going to do the same thing I did with the snow drops over there and just move some of the leaf litter here. And what I'm looking for, you need quite, there's little jumping flies down there. Yes, there is. There are all sorts of soil invertebrates, all this nutrition is the life food of absolutely myriads of different insects and soil invertebrates as well. It's a kind of living soil. So look, Matthew just here, a tiny little bulb with a white shoot on the top. And that is a 1-year-old bluebell from - is the bulb, but it's from 2022 and that was the seed that dropped on the ground. It then germinated and it's formed its first year bulb and it's at soil level.

Matthew Gudgin (09:15):

So it seems maybe a little bit exposed 

Chris Skinner (09:18):

Yes, it's just covered up by the leaf litter. But it's got a trick because this summer it will turn out a little chute at the top and some roots at the bottom, but it can't, the bulb can't be at ground level. It's got to get down in the soil. So the roots got special trick. They're called contractile roots. So the roots pull the little bulb into the soil year by year.

Matthew Gudgin (09:45):

So it will grow down a chute and then the chute will get some sort of purchase and drag the seed in?

Chris Skinner (09:51):

Yeah, the roots will the rootlets and that drags the bulb down. So it only happens when you've got a bulb. And what I was looking for in this leaf litter is this year's seeds. And I'm just looking for tiny little white shoots. They're like tiny, almost thread light. So I'm just moving some of the leaf litter here. Here's a blue bell. Oh, there's snowdrops near the top look. Another little clump of snowdrops here. I'm just looking for tiny little white threads, which will tell me that the blue bell seeds from this year, this last April and May are just beginning to germinate now. This is a time of the year that they do, and I'm looking for little grass like structures. That's a pine needle. I was getting a bit excited then. So I'm just scraping away very carefully. They're hard to see, but in a week or so, there'll be millions of them. Here we go. 

Matthew Gudgin (10:48):

A little filament there. 

Chris Skinner (10:49):

Yeah, a tiny filament. There it is. I won't disturb it. It's pure white. Another one just at the side there, and on the bottom of that will be a tiny shiny black seed. Very reflective. They're amazing. And they're the blue bell seeds that dropped on the ground because it's hard to imagine the blue bells when they're in flower. The little blue bell bit faces downwards. But as it has been pollinated and ripens, the flower head turns upwards and forms a tiny little cup over the summer months that dries as the seeds ripen inside and the cup opens upwards. So when you have the early autumn gales and winds, the bluebell stem that's still there, that pure white stem that we saw a minute ago shakes a boat in the wind and the seed is scattered on the woodland floor and then it germinates at this time of the year, the coldest time of the year. But nature is wonderful. It's all happening in these cold temperatures very slowly, but nevertheless, it's very visible.

 Matthew Gudgin (12:01):

So it's not a dead season, it's a season where things are happening, but maybe not within sight. 

Chris Skinner (12:05):

Yes, that's right. And that's why I absolutely love it. So although I said I like to live in the present, once you're aware of what's happening, it kind of gladdens your spirits. And there's nothing quite like nature to do that. You can have all the entertainment on the telly that you want, but there's something kind of fundamental in the human spirit to live with the season cycles. And that's why it's so important to me and that's why I love sharing it with you. And I know you give me a quizzical look when we're standing in the woodland like this and there's really nothing to look at. But there is so much to look at and it's full of promise. And that's why nature renews itself. It's the seasonal cycle which lasts a year, sometimes longer for some of the biennial species. And for these, the snow drops and the bluebells, they're perennials. They come back year after year after year, which is why I absolutely love them. 
(13:06)


Matthew Gudgin (13:06):

So am I invited to come and see the bluebelles in their full glory in a few months? 

Chris Skinner (13:10):

Course you can. We'll stand here. And it's just a picture. It's featured in magazines across this country. Country life has been and done a huge feature on this area of woodland. It's called Foxes Grove, Norwich, Norfolk. And it's a double page spread and it was just a delight to share that with everybody. So there we are. There's always something to see and to learn about out in the countryside, close to where you live.

 Chris Skinner (13:52):

This is a electricfied, but I'll get you over. 

Matthew Gudgin (14:00):

Many volts go through this?
(14:01)


Chris Skinner (14:02):

5,500 for a millisecond. You would get quite a pulse, but here we go.

Matthew Gudgin (14:02):

Step over

Chris Skinner (14:02):

Yeah

Matthew Gudgin (14:23):

We are out in the open now on this winter's morning enjoying the delights of High Ash Farm with Chris Skinner. And well, you've got dozens and dozens of good friends here as well, haven't you? And in fact over there there's the black sheep of the family.

Chris Skinner (14:38):

Yes Matthew. A few years back I brought you to this spot. It was a bare arable field. It had been growing winter barley and sugar beet, some of the commodities that we used to grow on High Ash Farm and decided to put this four hectare block. It's 10 acres in old money down to a wildflower field and it's been hugely successful. It's a south facing sandy gravelly slope here at High Ash Farm going down to a valley on our right hand side. And the crest of the hill is just over on our left. And I think there's been something digging here. And it's pure dark yellow sand. 

Matthew Gudgin (15:25):

It's like builders sand, isn't it? 

Chris Skinner (15:26):

Is it absolutely is. You could put this straight in a bag. It's very, very coarse. If I rub it between my fingers, it feels exactly like sandpaper and it stained my fingers bright yellow. 
(15:38)
So it's really difficult arable land to consistently produce crops. So it's gone into a wildflower field. Lots of the walkers who walk past, there's a big permissive walk at the bottom of the valley there, all contributed to buy a bag of the seed mix. And we sowed that and it's really, really well established now. There's over 20 native British wild flowers growing here and some introduced species as well. So oh, I can see lots and lots of Ox Eye Daisy just coming away, growing nicely. 

Matthew Gudgin (16:18):

Of course. No flowers at this time of the year. 

Chris Skinner (16:20):

No, no. It is pretty much in just waiting ahead. They're all establishing any bare patches. There would be seeds that have fallen on the ground, mowed the field in September and removed most of the material then because we had the moisture in later autumn and the warmth as well. It's regrown. 
(16:43)
And so in front of us, 198 North Country Cheviot Sheep and the farm has always been linked to sheep, right back from when my father first came here in the early 1940s to High Ash Farm. But before that he was a sheep farmer, but not in this country in New Zealand. And he had merino sheep and they were bred specially for their wool. It's still used today. Merino wool is a very fine textured textured wool. And these north country cheviots, they've kind of got Roman noses, they're white faced sheep and they do a really important job here at the farm. I give the grazing away for free all over the autumn right through until these are all used in front of us. 

Matthew Gudgin (17:35):

Where do these come from initially then?

Chris Skinner (17:37):

They're well North Country Cheviots, their native home is...

Matthew Gudgin (17:41):

...somewhere up north? But they over winter with you? 

Chris Skinner (17:44):

Yes, they do. Yes, but they spend all year here. We've got a new young shepherd this year, he's called Will Pope. He's really, really keen. And this is his personal flock and he's got a ram or two out there. So some of the ewes you can see with pink on their back and every fortnight he changes the raddle on the ram. That's the sort of paint pad on the ram's chest. So you can tell which of the ewes are going to lamb at which time. So generally this flock will be lambing about the middle of April. 

Matthew Gudgin (18:16):

Will they lamb here? 

Chris Skinner (18:17):

No, they won't because this wild flower field is allowed to carry on. That's a hay field down there. And that one on the other side of the valley is also hay, another one there. And that will be allowed to grow. They've grazed those right down to the ground. 
(18:35)
Perfect. They use their teeth and they get right close down, very close grazed. 

Matthew Gudgin (18:40):

But won't they grazing damage this wild flower meadow? 

Chris Skinner (18:43):

Not at all. The harder you graze it down to the ground. Remember most of the plants here are perennials, things like the ox eye daisy. There's sandpoint, there's clover here, although it's sandy soil, the pH that's the line, content of the soil is very, very high and that suits all the leguminous portion of the wildflowers. And so they will grow away. So they absolutely love it. The harder it's grazed down at this time of the year, the better it is and it reduces the competition as well. The sheep are quite selective grazers. They're grazing on the lucerne out there. That's the tall stalks you can see highly nutritious for them. And actually that reduces the fertility even more. So you'd think if you've got the sheep on here, they obviously poo and wee on the ground, it would increase the fertility. 

(19:35)

But overall you're supporting that huge body of sheep just under the 200 mark there. And it's actually supporting them and reducing the fertility. That means the grasses, which are the main problem if you establish a wildflower field, are much less competitive because they've been grazed down and the fertility is also low. The soil type here dictates that the fertility is quite low anyway because it's porous soil. The rain washes through. We've had lots of rain this winter so far and it leeches all the nutrients out. But that really suits the wildflower species. They don't like high nutrition soil. So that's the main problem. When you establish a wildflower field, often the soil, particularly in Norfolk is too fertile. But here we're almost on beach like conditions. But those sheep are really doing a fantastic job. So the shepherd benefits, he gets free grazing over the winter and high ash benefits because grazing the grass down like that, you can see those hay pastures, hay meadows over there. 
(20:47)
You're creating something called perpetual spring. And when you graze grass down, it's like mowing your lawn. It's green nearly all the year, but then we let it go in March, April and May. And if you have plenty of rain in May, there's the old farming motto, wet may long hay. And that's what we're after. So we then cut the hay and that feeds the horses, the liveries here over the winter months. So it all kind of works hand in glove. But I love seeing the sheep here. I love having livestock at the farm. The trouble is it's changed so much and many livestock breeders and growers in the county in Norfolk and right across the country are having a bit of a torrid time. Give you an idea. Norfolk itself was incredibly famous for wool, wool manufacturing. I went to school in really quite rough trousers. 
(21:44)
They were called worsted. And it was always for a young boy on your legs, you're wearing your first long trousers. They were a bit sort of spiky. 

Matthew Gudgin (21:52):

Well, it's character building though

Chris Skinner (21:53):

If you like to call it that, but it's a really hard wearing yarn and it's made from long wool. That would be something like the Lincoln Longhorn Lincoln long wool breed of sheep where the actual braids of wool would be up to 14 inches long. This is quite short soft wool on these North Country Cheviots. So it costs about between one pound thirty, one pound fifty to shear each of these in May when they've given birth to their lambs. And the fleece is only worth about fifty pence. It goes to the wool marketing board. So it's rather uneconomic. And yet it's a complete turnaround because Norfolk was famous for its wool industry. 

Matthew Gudgin (22:43):

Well Worsted is a village in Norfolk

Chris Skinner (22:43):

Absolutely. And it's the name of that particular braid where you comb down the long wool and you weave it into a particular pattern. And that's called Worsted. Very hard wearing indeed because I used to be on my hands and knees at school an awful lot and playing in the playground and I never kind of wore the knees out of my trousers. It's a hard wearing material. So there they are. They're all grazing away. 

Matthew Gudgin (23:11):

They're as good as gold. They're not saying a word, are they? I'd rather we heard them actually. But there's not many baas

Chris Skinner (23:16):

No, there isn't. But I can see a very large round end just over there. And that's one of the rams. And I can see him. He's just walking around checking all his ladies. I think there's four or five rams here. And they're pretty hufty animals. Yes. And there's one or two black wool sheep as well of a different breed. But there's well over 25 breeds of sheep. And the Lincoln long wool sheep is now a rare breed sheep. And yet it's what we used to have in Lincoln and they'd bring the wool down into Norfolk to be spun into those special yarns that made Norfolk famous across the world. So Worsted is one of those fabrics that is well known right across the world because of its special weave. But I absolutely love having the sheep here. It kind of makes the farm look like a proper farm.

 Matthew Gudgin (24:13):

Well, it's marvellous to come to this field. And I'm just a bit upset though that you've never acted on my wish for this field, which would be a vineyard, because it faces in the right direction. 

Chris Skinner (24:22):

It absolutely does. The soil's right. And there's chalk just underneath us. It would be absolutely perfect.

Matthew Gudgin (24:31):

And we could drink the profits? 

Chris Skinner (24:32):

Yeah, well you'd drink the profits. I'd do all the hard work. I know how this arrangement works, Matthew.

Matthew Gudgin (24:38):

It's a very skilled thing, a wine taster, y'know.

Chris Skinner (24:41):

But yes, you're completely right. It would lend itself perfectly. And that takes us back to many of the varieties of sheep which were introduced by the Romans. And I have a very strong feeling that the Romans grew vines here, had a vineyard here at Caistor St Edmunds, the Roman capital of Eastern Britain. 

Matthew Gudgin (25:05):

We got to negotiate that electric fence again. 

Chris Skinner (25:08):

Yes, yes. I'll stand on it and you stride over, but I could be cheeky and let it spring back up at the wrong moment. 

Matthew Gudgin (25:17):

Shocking 

Matthew Gudgin (25:25):

Once again, a bulging post bag of emails and different letters coming in to ask Chris questions and make little points about the programme and everything is welcome. Thank you very much for sending them in. I'll give the email address out in a moment. But Pam McPherson from Crathie in Aberdeenshire, thank you for your note. Very rural Cairngorm temperatures here. My daughter lives in Strathton and her local sparrows nest under the corrugations of a porch roof attached to the old stone house. It'd be very useful if you're able to email any ideas you may have for sparrow accommodation as the old roof will have to be replaced and she's wanting to give them somewhere else to nest in numbers when this happens. They use the old honeysuckle on the gable end to congregate. And I experienced a sparrow hawk flying past my right ear to grab one when I was standing next to the honeysuckle last summer. So obviously buildings need new roofs from time to time. 

Chris Skinner (26:24):

Yes, particularly up there. And particularly if it sounds as though you've got some considerable numbers of sparrows, I'm assuming they're house sparrows, and you're very, very lucky to have them. They have become over the recent decades, they've declined by 50% or more. But when you consider the whole number of sparrows that were in the United Kingdom, that's a massive number of birds that have just disappeared off the scene. So you're lucky to have them. And at High Ash Farm, I specialise in looking after Sparrows and have brought them back almost from the brink of not being here and got a flock of well over a hundred this year. And I'm very happy to help. I can send you some advice both in construction of something somewhere for them to sleep, at least temporarily. But out on the stables of the farm. I have had a bit of a problem in recent years with the swallows nesting underneath the stable roofs, which were corrugated and it would get so hot up in the apex where the swallows nests were that often the young swallows would bail out. 
(27:37)
The sparrows seem a bit impervious to the high temperatures, but nevertheless, I've put another roof on top of the original one and there's a gap between the two. And although I've got lots of sparrow nest boxes, probably about a hundred holes for them in total around a farm yard. This new idea of one roof on top of another seems to take the fancy of my local sparrows. And they're nesting in there. They're taking straw and hay by themselves and nesting in this kind of sandwich gap, which is only about 75 millimetres tall. Tall, about three inches between one corrugation roof and the other one. 

Matthew Gudgin (28:18):

So it's an unintended consequence. 

Chris Skinner (28:19):

Yes, absolutely. It was really done for the swallows. I love my swallows too. And it's working a dream for the sparrows and the young coming out, despite the high temperatures in July. They just seem to be able to cope with the higher temperatures that we get underneath corrugated sheets. But nevertheless, I've got some ideas for you and I'll send you a little easy design. I'll post it off for you. You've sent your address as well and your phone number, which is always really useful. So I can contact you and I'll do a little design for you. And I just need to ask a few questions like how many sparrows have you got, for instance, because I'm always very nosy like that and I get very jealous if you've got more than me. 

Matthew Gudgin (29:04):

What a wonderful part of the country. The Cairn Gorms

Chris Skinner (29:06):

Yes. You're telling me 

Matthew Gudgin (29:08):

Lots of you emailing through to say that you are enjoying the new format and it's very kind of you to say. So hello to Gail Wilson who says quite often I laugh out loud. Hopefully that's for the right reasons.

Chris Skinner (29:19):

I hope so. It's laughing at us or with us. I don't mind. 

Matthew Gudgin (29:23):

Bernadette Keeshan listening in London. Wonderful programme. Really enjoy it. I'm in London after listening to the podcast, It's like I have been walking in the countryside. Excellent. And Julia Kowski says, thank you for the wonderful podcasts and thank you as to the team in the office, Sophie and Anna, for sending out the CD version to my mum. Not everyone is podcast savvy, you see. 

Chris Skinner (29:48):

No, I'm not. But I do manage to listen to what we talk about. And I burst out laughing as well because sometimes I'm quite stupid. But I don't mind at all. 

Matthew Gudgin (30:00):

And Tracy Keap as well, one or two questions you've sent to Chris about how to get a guided walk around the farm. You're going to speak to Tracy?

Chris Skinner (30:08):

I'm going to give Tracy a call and see if we can actually help with that one. It's a request. So yes, I'm sure I can do something in the fullness of time towards next spring. 

Matthew Gudgin (30:20):

And hello Anne. Anne Robbins who listened last week when you from quite a distance spotted a stoat. And it was a marvellous thing to see and I just caught the tail end of the stout going through the undergrowth. But Anne says, I expect Chris knows how to tell the difference between STOs and weasels. A weasel is weasily recognised, but a stoately is different. 

Chris Skinner (30:45):

Look, she's top trumping me. I do all the jokes around here. Yes, no, thank you for that. It always amuses me. And incidentally, they are quite difficult to tell the difference between them all. There's actually four sizes. A male stout is quite large, about eight to ten inches long. A female stout quite a bit smaller, about six to eight inches long. And a weasel is really tinyand its reputed a weasel can actually pass through a wedding ring on a lady's finger, not with her wearing it, you understand? But tiny with a very small skull. Thye're very fast. And the stout is unusual because it's one of the foo mammals, the carnivores in the United Kingdom that can kill a mammal much larger than itself, like a fully grown rabbit bite them on the back of the neck. The smell of the stout seems to stun rabbits completely. And gamekeepers who have seen this happen, actually call it a stoated Rabbit, where the rabbit just becomes petrified by the smell of the stoat and is actually unable to move. Extraordinary. So thank you for all the information and the comments and thank you to, we haven't said it to Sophie and Anna who put our jigsaw puzzle of podcast together. Thank you. Back at the team at SOUNDYARD. 

Matthew Gudgin (32:18):

No weasel words here. Let's give you the email address, chris@countrysidepodcast.co.uk and well another episode comes to an end far too quickly. And just as the sun comes out.

Chris Skinner (32:33):

The sun comes out. And Matthew, you've got an invitation for next week. Our next podcast will go out on December the 24th, which is a Sunday. And I'm going to take you just off the farm to start with. We're going to visit mistletoe and find out about the history of it and the religious connotations, which will happen here at the farm on December the 22nd, the shortest stay. It's the winter solstice and that'll be celebrated by the Druids who gathering considerable numbers here at the farm. And I'm looking across, I can just see the top of Norwich Cathedral to through the woodland there. And on the other side, the Roman Catholic Cathedral and the Druids worshipped the seasons way before Christianity was established. So we'll explore that as well as the mistletoe. So you have an invitation

Matthew Gudgin (33:27):

Our Christmas episode. Can't wait. Any mince pies on offer do you think?

Chris Skinner (33:32):

We'll see. Yes. Come on. I'm an impoverished farmer.